My Miuras-- Technique or Bum Pair?

I got these Miuras a little over a month ago and the toes already look like this. Mostly face climbing, three or four days a week, up to four pitches per outing.

Is this my technique or is this a bum pair or is this typical durability of this shoe? My gut says it's my technique, but I own three other pairs of shoes, some of which I've been using for two years, and nothing remotely like this has happened to any of the others.

I'm thinking of sending them to LA Sportiva for repair or replacement but won't if I'm pretty sure the fault is mine.

ukclimbing.com/forums/t.php…

the good news is that if you get them resoled by a reputable resoler, they wont delaminate the same way and will last much longer

;)

Had a very similar (but not as bad) thing happen to my MadRocks recently. It's worth it to contact Sportiva and just ask. Worst case is they say no, but that looks like defective adhesion, which they should honor

From the picture I don't see anything wrong with them. They just look really worn on the tip of each toe. I don't see evidence of delam at all. Are you dragging toes a lot? Type of rock you're face climbing?

mattm wrote:From the picture I don't see anything wrong with them. They just look really worn on the tip of each toe. I don't see evidence of delam at all. Are you dragging toes a lot? Type of rock you're face climbing?

It's on a hard schist that tends to be smoother than it is rough. Toe drag was the first thing I thought, but I haven't had this happen on any other shoe, and once I noticed this start, I've been trying to be extra careful about drag, but the deterioration has continued.

Probably no harm in sending them to La Sportiva. The worst that can happen is they tell me tough luck and I'm out a few bucks shipping.

I have had this kind of thing happen on really coarse granite it went through the toe in a single session, just a matter of climbing. Get them resoled.

So it's worth clarifying a few things.

What bearbreeder above refers to is rand delamination.

What you have is totally worn soles with sole delamination from the rand secondary. By that I mean the minimal delamination you're seeing is entirely due to the massive wear. I can't think of a way to blame glue. Maybe a bad batch of rubber that would effect shoes with that kind of rubber across all brands. Has anyone heard of this?

My Miura's were XS edge last time I bought them new. It's not the most durable stuff in the world but it sure held up longer than a month. It's also my favorite edging rubber, so I don't complain about durability.

I don't know how hard you're pushing it or what kind of rock you're climbing. You're essentially describing 64 pitches. It's not unreasonable to wear them out in that time. If that includes warm up and dicking around, they should have lasted longer. If that's 64 pitches at your limit, outdoors, that sounds reasonable.

They sure look new otherwise. It looks like you're $50 away from a really good pair of shoes. Don't worry, mine are on their 4th or 5th resole and are still great. More comfortable, but no loss in edging power.

Actually the link i posted has many examples of sole delamination as well

Sportivas have had this issue for quite a long time

The hilarious part is that the resoles generally dont

;)

I just spent 3 weeks climbing steep limestone on Kalymnos on a brand new pair of Katanas. i.e. not a lot of toe dragging going on. Mine are not as bad, though similar to the OP's. But only one shoe- the other still has crisp edges... I'm getting in touch with Sportive NA warranty as well.
Poor technique may speed up the problem once its begun to pull away, but the underlying issue is definitely a step down in quality at the Sportive factory over the past year or two.

bearbreeder wrote:Actually the link i posted has many examples of sole delamination as well Sportivas have had this issue for quite a long time The hilarious part is that the resoles generally dont ;)

Dude, why must you contradict everyone, even when you're wrong.

Everyone knows La Sportiva glue sucks. It has for at least 10 years. That's not news.

A good resole shouldn't peel even when the rubber is completely worn through. However, bad glue won't cause rubber to completely wear through.

So again I'll say that he's got worn out soles with delamination SECONDARY (resulting from) to the wear.

He needs a resole.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Dude, why must you contradict everyone, even when you're wrong. Everyone knows La Sportiva glue sucks. It has for at least 10 years. That's not news. A good resole shouldn't peel even when the rubber is completely worn through. However, bad glue won't cause rubber to completely wear through. So again I'll say that he's got worn out soles with delamination SECONDARY (resulting from) to the wear. He needs a resole.

ive seen those delaminations mostly with sportivas even when almost new ...

the OP left it too long before contacting sportiva ... however over and over again this issue has happened on sportivas even when fairly new

perhaps theres something "magical" about sportiva ... as this doesnt happen with my resoles on the very same shoe, or on other brands as much

when made in china climbx shoes dont delaminate at the "end of their life"even after much use on slabs and cracks .... well you realize that sportiva has a QC issue despite being "hand made in italy"



go read the link i posted and youll see tons of folks having this issue

you can ask locker what he thinks tooo ...

Can't count how many pairs that have come through that are in varying degrees of delaminating.

Sure other shoe companies also have this issue occasionally. But NOT consistently!

mountainproject.com/v/buy-l…

the good news is that a good resole wont delaminate ... same shoe better job

;)

Yeah LaSportiva had a particularly bad batch of glue recently. I was working at a climbing gym for the last year and saw a ton of this. Even from people who had really good footwork.

WARRANTY AWAY

Heh...I posted almost this same thread a few months ago. I've found Miura laces to be one of the least durable shoes I've owned, although they are sweet.

So to update in case anyone cares... ;-)

I sent the shoes back to La Sportiva, including an explanation about the usage, other shoes, etc.

They sent me a new pair in the same size. So far, no issues, and I've been using them longer than I did the first pair.

Good customer service. Although I'm a 5.10 fan now, I'll probably buy LS again because even though online reviews suggest durability really is an issue, the company handled it really well in this case.

Yeah. Have to say, I've put my Moccasyms through much more hell than the Miuras, and they're fine even with the softer/thinner rubber.

Over the years, I seen delamination come and go in various brands. I've taken to immediate intervention: keep a tube of Barge Cement around the house and glue back even the slightest gaps that form.

Use a finishing nail to get the glue in (it is sometimes surprising how far back a tiny delam goes). If possible, get a film on both sides of the delam without them touching, leave the nail in to keep the sides apart. Wait a few minutes until the glue is tacky and doesn't produce stringy tendrils when you touch it with your finger, and then either hold the sides together for another five minutes or so or clamp them if you can. If you can orient the shoe properly on a hard surface, pound the repair with a hammer (in a direction that pushes the edges together of course). I've kept some shoes going until I wore the sole down this way, but of course there is no way to redo the experiment without the gluing to see if what I was doing made any long-term difference.

Ted Pinson wrote:Yeah. Have to say, I've put my Moccasyms through much more hell than the Miuras, and they're fine even with the softer/thinner rubber.

Moccasyms actually have a 4.2mm sole, the miura has 4mm.

Oh, no kidding! For some reason, they always felt thinner because of the softness/sensitivity.

In the same way that we check our skin after blowing off sharp crimps or grating off a dyno we missed, we should also check our rubber/shoes. It is important to monitor the rubber on your shoes, especially the toe area, at least after every session, perhaps every burn depending on the situation.

This will allow you to get a resole before it is too late and your toe is sticking out of the rand. Most La Sportivas will take many resoles before they're shot if you're paying attention to your shoes. $30-$40 to nearly double/triple the life of your $150+ climbing shoes makes a lot of sense in every way.

Delams happen for a multitude of reasons, #1 is toe-drag/footwork. I've been working in the climbing industry since 2008 in gyms, retail shops, and climbing shoe companies. I've always worked closely with the warranty department and this is usually the culprit.

An easy way to differentiate a de-lam vs a footwork issue is to check the top edge of the rubber sole that is peeling away. Not the rock-side but the shoe side of the rubber edge. If it is abraded, footwork is the culprit. If the edge is in tact, delam.

Causes for a delam are also many. The glue is usually not the problem here either. Hot cars and other places where your shoes suffer from temperature can do bad things. Contaminants that get between the glue and sole can also be a problem. Delams usually start very small and are neglected and worsened as more dirt/chalk etc work their way in. If you pay close attention to your shoes and focus on your footwork, you can usually mitigate this problem entirely. The bad batch of glue myth is more urban-legend than anything else.

Sorry but thats just an excuse for sportiva

You can read the various links, do a search or even as out infamous resoler "locker"

Sportivas have had a serious delamination problem for years ... Odly enough most of the same folks dont have as many issues with other branda or resolves

Here a tenaya vs a fairly new sportiva ... No scrape marks on the rand obth sportiva yet its already peeling

Heres a cheap 5.10 vs the sportiva ... You can easily see what shoes have been used more



Most the sportivas i have had delamination issues, none of the other brands even el cheapo ones i have had em

I probably have 30 or so pairs of climbing shoes (including worn out ones) in my closet right now

And most of these shoes have been used in squamish, not some place hot like thailand or the desert

Sportiva has had a very real issue ... And to be blunt some folks who work in the industry cant accept that and blame the user

Even though the same users use other brands with much less delamination issues

Fixe aliens, sportivas, older petzl ropes .... Everything gets swept under a rug

;)

Am I the only person who has never had a pair of La Sportivas delam? Or seen somebody else's shoe delam in person? Although I did see a partner's Miura VS velcro strap break... once... on a pair of shoes that had already been resoled twice...