Mountain Project Logo

Rumney Top Anchors

ton · · Salt Lake City · Joined Aug 2014 · Points: 0

i feel a slippery slope coming on. please indulge me (i haven't climbed at Rumney in 10+ years. when i learned, of course, you never lowered off the fixed anchors):

the more we put safety of the climbing public on having anchors that any gym climber can use (ie, no quickdraws and rethreading required), the more we eventually trend toward someone other than the climbers being responsible for the upkeep and maintainence of those anchors.

now, if those things are actually getting burnt through in a season and some of you have actively taken on the role of maintaining them... guess who's going to get sued when one fails because you didn't maintain it?

double edged sword, indeed.

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Tim. I have been involved in rescues and I do Not believe that dumbing down the anchors makes your child safer. all it does is teach you kid that they don't need to know anything to climb outdoors. My anchors are simple, bombproof,economical and easily replaced. Quick clips drill complacency into the climbers mind. Complacency Kills. additionaly your saftey argument holds zero water unless every anchor is a quick clip. otherwise you are simply setting the kids up for failure in a situation where failure equals death.

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
kemple sr. wrote:And back to the subject at hand, anyone volunteering to help lube some solid gate clippies before winter sets in? I think a small shot of WD40 would really help, and some silicone based grease like faucet grease or Judy butter from mt biking would be even longer lasting.
Tim, I like the silicone based grease idea. I will get some this weekend. Looks like less than 50/50 I will be able to make it up there before wintry conditions set in this year.
David Baddeley · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2014 · Points: 30

Just wanted to second the observation that the rams horns on Rose Garden make clipping quickdraws to the anchor to set a top rope really difficult. I couldn't get a draw through the rams horns themselves, and as the rams horns are directly on the anchor bolts, clipping the bolts ended up with the biners being loaded awkwardly with the spine levered over the rams horn. Am sure I could have rigged something satisfactory by threading a cordellete through the bolts, but didn't have one with me. I am loath to admit it, but I reluctantly ended up setting a top-rope through the rams horns.

Extending the rams horns with a couple of quick links would have probably solved the issue.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65

The new standard at Owens River Gorge (where the volcanic dust is incredibly abrasive) and many other western areas is a Mussy Hook Anchor that uses a pair of heavy duty tow hooks:



From the ASCA:
" Instead of the traditional cold shuts, usually with a backup Fixe sport clip, there are now "Mussy" hooks, which you've seen if you've done some of the newer routes like Dr. Evil. These are hugely thick tow hooks, attached to normal hangers with a quick-link; ultimate strength rating of 8,000 lbs (the quick-links: 10,500 lbs). The Mussy hooks have a gate, unlike most cold shuts. A 3rd bolt with a chain plus carabiner is also present on some of the routes. Yeah, some jerk may pilfer the biner, but by the time the hooks start wearing thin, you can put another one on as a backup. Even on the anchors with two hooks, if you don't like the look of a worn hook, just slide it up on the quick-link and add a leaver biner."

Of course that doesn't mean they're immune to wear:
S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
David Baddeley wrote:Extending the rams horns with a couple of quick links would have probably solved the issue.
Yup, for sure.
Tim Kemple · · Salt Lake · Joined Jun 2011 · Points: 170

Mussy hooks are fine out west. They will just rust shut with our wetness.
I think these new steel wiregates will be a good fix. They are only about 4 or 5 dollars and should last a while. Changing out one here or there is no big deal, but the impending failure of many 30-60 sets of solid gate clippies will be a big headache. That is why I am on the net recruiting help.

S. thanks for volunteering, hopefully more will sign on, In any case post here what gets done or needs replacing so we can minimize duplication. I will start at Main Cliff next, but not sure if I can get back up before Thanksgiving.

Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
kemple sr. wrote:Mussy hooks are fine out west. They will just rust shut with our wetness.
Yet you were the one suggesting people climb with a can of WD40. Arguably with a hook that deep you don't even need the gate since the rope isn't going to magically jump out on a lower or rappel. And everyone is TR'ing through their own gear, right?

And everyone is really happy about encountering grease on the anchor hardware. Remind me to never bother with Rumney.
Jake D. · · Northeast · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 365
Nick Goldsmith wrote:This is the best top anchor INMOP. tons of room to clip in and easily replaceable.
Nick's setup is my preference too. and is what most of RRG has. And thought Rumney was going that way with Mark's routes. Also discourages TRing through them.

the cleaning method that you clip into your own draw on the anchor, then clip direct to the bolt. Thread a bight though the anchor, tie fig 8 on bight then clip it to your harness with a locker or 2. weight new tie in, untie climbing knot, clean anchor. Lower.

This leaves you with multiple backups, always on belay, never need to communicate with your belayer. pull slack, do steps above, call for tension/take. lower off. no off belay, on belay stuff that gets people in trouble.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
kemple sr. wrote:It would be interesting to know how many of those weighing in actually climb the routes with quick clips on a busy day. There is no doubt that they greatly speed up turnover which is a big deal when 20 people are waiting. As for safety, I wonder how many of those weighing in have had to carry out a broken bloody body, or seen Rumney volunteer rescue guys get seriously injured while trying to help out an injured climber. I have seen both, and it is worth my time and some cash to make things as safe as possible. Nick, you are right, we shouldn't have to have clippies, any more than we should have to have speed limits on the highway, but this is the real world, and the kid that gets hurt could be yours or mine.
I don't know if you're genuinely interested but I'll bite. I'm lucky enough to be able to climb during the week. I would like to check out Rumney on a weekend since I've been to the Gunks on many weekends and it's not so bad. I've been involved in maybe half dozen rescues. I've been a caterpillar more than once. I would go on to enforce my opinion but I understand that you're not interested.

Thanks for replacing fixed gear.
S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
Marc801 wrote: Remind me to never bother with Rumney.
Seriously, a lot of us wish more people will never bother with R again. I have encountered far worse on climbs and on the base of climbs. What do you think your rope picks up?

Bill Kirby wrote: I would like to check out Rumney on a weekend since I've been to the Gunks on many weekends and it's not so bad. I've been involved in maybe half dozen rescues. I've been a caterpillar more than once.
Well, in that case, you will find R on a nice weekend almost deserted. One of the major reasons I stopped going to The Gunks during weekends since 2000 is I could not stand the crowds at the cliff and on the carriage road between Uber Falls and High E, and The Nears before Birdland. If I do not know where to go and not to go on a nice day (any nice day) at R, I think I would have stopped going too 10 years ago.
And do you think taking part in 6 rescues over 5/10/15 years speaks to an overcrowding/undereducated problem? In 25 years I too have been involved in 5 or 6 rescues (only 2 at R). I hope never to get sucked into one ever again. I assume you have driven for over 30 years. How many accidents have you assisted in the rescue?
Nick Grant · · Tamworth, NH · Joined Oct 2012 · Points: 424

Ease up on the Rumney bashing. There are plenty of out-of-the way crags at Rumney that 95% of the people never see. I've been climbing almost every weekend this fall, and Ian and I are often the sole party at the crag.

Tim, keep up the great work on our behalf. Thank you.

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
Jake D. wrote: Thread a bight though the anchor, tie fig 8 on bight then clip it to your harness with a locker or 2. weight new tie in, untie climbing knot, clean anchor.
Yup, this will work with beefy links Mark uses and sub 10.5 ropes. But not all links are beefy at R. For this to work more generally, as much as I hate SS rap rings, a beefy round ring might be more suitable than an oblong qlink. Of course, I recognize SS rap rings are more expensive, one more thing to inventory and all that.
Personally, like a lot of things climbing, there is no "one size fits all" solution here for Rumney. I like to see some POPULAR routes continue to be equipped with quickies or ram's horns. I also like to see more routes with the anchor system Mark and Nick use, provided we also supplement that with education and knowledge dissemination.
S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
Nick Grant wrote:Ease up on the Rumney bashing. There are plenty of out-of-the way crags at Rumney that 95% of the people never see. I've been climbing almost every weekend this fall, and Ian and I are often the sole party at the crag. Tim, keep up the great work on our behalf. Thank you.
Nick, I know where you have been going. Good for you! Don't spread it too widely though, for it will spoil it for all of us! :)
christopher adams · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 0

Hey Tim- I can donate a couple hundred bucks worth of whatever solution you want. Just say the word and tell me where to have it shipped.

kemple sr. wrote:Many of the more moderate routes at Rumney are equipped with quick clip anchors for lowering off. The decision to use them was a conscious decision made by first ascensionists, and the RCA to make change overs quick and safe. If you have ever been near anyone shouting instructions up to a newby partner who has to thread a top anchor, you will know how dangerous and slow this can be. These quick clips or clippies have been wonderful, but a maintenance nightmare. The early ones were stainless with a wire gate. They worked great, but the stainless was so soft that ropes quickly cut a dangerous groove. Some of these wore out in less than a year. The second generation were forged carabiners with a solid gate. These wore better but the gate springs have not been holding up well in our Eastern weather. They seem to be made more for indoor use. Dave Quinn has introduced a bent wire drop in which is commonly called a ram's horn. These have the benefit of no moving parts. but we will have to see how long they last. Where am I going with this? I have been trying to maintain the solid gate units by spraying with WD40 and adding silicone grease. I have done all of them in the Meadows this way. I know WD is not recommended for cams etc because it has oil in it, but the straight silicone suggested by Fixe did nothing to even stop squeaks, much less weatherproof. I thought if many of the Rumney regulars could climb with a little spray can, we might get a couple of years out of the remaining forged units. Since silicone, which is safe for ropes didn't work, do we want to use WD, a silicone grease? I guess I am just asking for the community to help out a little, and if nothing else, they could post on this thread where problems exist. In the meantime, I have replaced a dozen or so forged units with floppy gates with a steel wire gate biner. Again, we will see how long these last.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
S. Neoh wrote:...The Gunks during weekends since 2000 is I could not stand the crowds at the cliff and on the carriage road between Uber Falls...
Psssst!
It's Uberfall - one word, singular.
Minor point but "Uber Falls" just grates on the eyes for us long/old timers
S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

^^^^^
OK. Thanks for the correction.

Gunkiemike · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2009 · Points: 3,492
Marc801 wrote: Psssst! It's Uberfall - one word, singular. Minor point but "Uber Falls" just grates on the eyes for us long/old timers
My Gunks semantic pet peeve du jour: people who think the Trapps cliff is the "West Trapps" (because that's what the parking lot sign says). Even a cursory look at any guidebook should put a stop to that.
Mark NH · · 03053 · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 0

Tim,

Thanks for all your efforts. If we run into each other some weekday at Rumney and you need some help - just speak up and you've got it.

With that, while quick clips are great and I certainly like them, I think they lead to climbers "not doing the right thing" in regards to top roping, etc. I like Nick's setup for moderate routes.

Mark

ottice webb · · Stanton KY · Joined Nov 2013 · Points: 5
Typical RRG anchor nowdays
Typical RRG anchor nowdays
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
Post a Reply to "Rumney Top Anchors"

Log In to Reply

Join the Community

Create your FREE account today!
Already have an account? Login to close this notice.

Get Started.