Retrobolting in Yosemite - By a Yosemite guidebook author
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Since it seems to relevant, but is being discussed on another thread (the author's call for photos and advert for his upcoming book), I figured I'd point it out by name on this thread. |
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I've been keeping up with this from Alabama. |
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UncleBen wrote:I've been keeping up with this from Alabama. This is a call to arms.... Why is no one chopping yet? Yosemite is a zoo of tourists....but it still deserves more respect than this. Seriously... WHY IS NO ONE CHOPPING!?The bolts on BOR have been chopped. |
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Sorry for the diversion. |
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UncleBen wrote:...Erasing...history...is bad, no matter the medium.fixed. but I hear ya. |
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UncleBen wrote: Erasing the history of noble pursuits is bad,.Sigh. I'm not advocating new bolts or chopping them, but I gotta say, climbing isn't a "noble" pursuit, so perhaps predicating your arguments on this notion is a poor choice. Sorry, it just bugs me when our community tries to romanticize our hobby in this way. Carry on with the pitchforks... |
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You don't get to decide what is "just a hobby" for anyone but yourself. I absolutely see the nobility in climbing. Sad for you that you can't. |
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Or maybe sad that you do? What would this world look like if instead of climbing all these people put all this effort into something actually noble? |
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I Tend to agree with Albers on the point of Nobility, but stop there. |
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This is a pretty narrow, Amerocentric way to view climbing. In other countries they are knighted or similarly honored . Climbing is way bigger than dirt bagging. |
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The original thread by Eric Sloan has been both entertaining and disturbing. But is bolt-chopping the answer? Is that just going to incite him further? I haven't climbed in Yosemite, but are there other avenues that haven't been explored? If retrobolting is illegal in the Valley, then why hasn't Sloan been reprimanded by the "authorities"? Who would the authorities be in this case and what power do they have? Several posts made the claim that the ASCA has already disowned Sloan. Why haven't other Yosemite organizations done the same? |
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Bob Johnson wrote:The original thread by Eric Sloan has been both entertaining and disturbing. But is bolt-chopping the answer? Is that just going to incite him further? I haven't climbed in Yosemite, but are there other avenues that haven't been explored? If retrobolting is illegal in the Valley, then why hasn't Sloan been reprimanded by the "authorities"? Who would the authorities be in this case and what power do they have? Several posts made the claim that the ASCA has already disowned Sloan. Why haven't other Yosemite organizations done the same?There's nothing inherently "illegal" about bolting in the Valley unless you use a power drill (something else ES has been accused of BTW). To the best of my knowledge, ES is not affiliated with any other Yosemite "organizations" - and as far as I know, there are none that have any official capacity to regulate route development or bolting. As has been pointed out by others, the last thing climbers want is to get the NPS involved, as that is just likely to end poorly for all climbers and not just the ones we deem offensive. |
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csproul wrote: There's nothing inherently "illegal" about bolting in the Valley unless you use a power drill (something else ES has been accused of BTW). To the best of my knowledge, ES is not affiliated with any other Yosemite "organizations" - and as far as I know, there are none that have any official capacity to regulate route development or bolting. As has been pointed out by others, the last thing climbers want is to get the NPS involved, as that is just likely to end poorly for all climbers and not just the ones we deem offensive.Gotcha! Thanks for the clarification! |
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I offer that the debate about nobility is a tangent, and that the primary issue is the apparently admitted, ongoing violation of retrobolting tradition / ethics in Yosemite. |
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Alicia Sokolowski wrote:This is a pretty narrow, Amerocentric way to view climbing. In other countries they are knighted or similarly honored . Climbing is way bigger than dirt bagging.No its not. And kissing some big snowy hill climbing shmoe's ass -- or knighting them or whatever some dumb Queen does with her 13th century sword of monarchy-- is a waste of resources. Climbing only matters to the person doing it and the people they are doing it with. Ain't nothing ethical about. Feeding starving kids in *insert country*? Noble. Volunteering at the dog shelter? Sure, noble. Climbing? Proly not. In fact, sitting home on Saturday and watching reruns of Archer all day is probably more noble because at least then you are not shitting a carbon footprint all the way to the crag and back just so you could schred some gnar and feel righteous about your nobility compared to the rest of the football watching, beer swilling sub-human masses that inhabit the "lowlands". ....said the jagoff who hopes to shlep up to some pointless cliff this weekend and schred. |
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I was in the Louvre the other day, and realized that the Original Artist didn't quite finish what she started, so i added the finishing touches. Much better now. If you don't like it, just ignore it. |
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Muscrat wrote:I was in the Louvre the other day, and realized that the Original Artist didn't quite finish what she started, so i added the finishing touches. Much better now. If you don't like it, just ignore it.I'm with Muscrat! I'm going to cast my vote for how history should be written with my wallet. |
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Muscrat wrote:I was in the Louvre the other day, and realized that the Original Artist didn't quite finish what she started, so i added the finishing touches. Much better now. If you don't like it, just ignore it.That's OK. They were probably high during the first painting of it! (a defense actually used by a person OTHER THAN the person in question) |
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Tony B wrote: That's OK. They were probably high during the first painting of it! (a defense actually used by the person in question)No, he didn't. Those weren't the words of ES, they were the words of somebody else. It's not constructive to put words in someone's mouth, it only adds to the bashing. If I get motivated enough I will dig back through the other thread and grab the quote from the person who actually said it. |
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Be Esperanza wrote: I'm with Muscrat! I'm going to cast my vote for how history should be written with my wallet.Kudos to you. Voting with our Dollar is the most powerful vote we have. It sends a clear and undeniable message. I vote this way quite often and i wish that more people would realize how powerful this concept is, and that more folks who do think about it give enough of a crap to actually do it. Instead of bitching constantly about how we (society) don't agree with the practices of WalMart, Oil Companies, Pharmaceutical companies, etc. etc. but continuing to give them our money... why don't we put our money where our mouthes are? It's a much more effective practice than the bitching and hypocrisy. |
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Jake Jones wrote:Wow, a thread with a pissing contest inside the thread about another pissing contest. It's like pissing contest-ception.Ending with how not to piss your money away. |