Hand/ Fist Cam Talk

I'm kind of just wanking myself here, trying not to buy the ridiculously cheap WC Helium Friends on steep and cheap right now, but have questions for the large cam sizes. (if you could just buy those out, you'd save me a lot of grief) I'm going to compare everything to BD. Probably just gear whoring, but I was thinking of a BD #3 double. And I am wondering to get A) BD #3, B) DMM Dragon #5, or C) WC Helium Friend #3 & #3.5 for more cam overlap....

Do you think there is a hole between BD #2 and BD #3?

^^If so does the WC HF #3 fit that hole?

Anyone have anything to say about the extendable sling design on newer Helium Friends? I know many complained of the former sling design, I had no issue with it though.

Do you like DMM cams in the larger sizes? Seems to me the larger/ heavier/ top heavy/ the cam is, the more I'd want the thumb loop. Thoughts on DMM Dragon #5 i.e. BD #3 sizing???

Dragon vs. Demon in large Sizing?

Tom,

I can't answer most of your questions, but the #3 WC definitely fits between the #2 and #3 BD and I like having both brands, especially on desert cracks.
In fact, a few of the WC cams have this "fill the gap" effect with BD cams, such at the #2 fitting between the .75 and #1 BD. I feel this size can be particularly key on some Indian Creek routes.
The 3.5 WC seems to be basically the same size as the #3 BD.

Here is a great review on the DMM Demon, which also mentions Dragon and cam comparisons:
Blister Gear Review - DMM Demon

Great chart for gearheads:

Yes, there is definitely a hole between the #2 and #3. For proof, see Blue Sun in Indian Creek, most of which is in the gap. Tipped out 2's, way overcammed 3's.

Does it matter for most people? Probably not. Except the creek, cracks are rarely regular enough that there wouldn't be another option within a few inches.

Sure. I don't have a gap filler for THAT one, but I have the red and yellow WC FF as offset sizing for the 1 and 2 BD's. I'm gonna assume that the #3 WC would do the same.

Plus the nice thing about the WC is the head profile is much smaller while retaining about the same camming range.

Lots of time I can't fit the BD's in a shallow crack, and the WC saved the day.

For the lower end I use metolius TCU's smaller profile to compliment the BD's 4 lobes.

In regards to the lack of thumb loop on the #5 Dragon, I have had no issue. The action is smooth and the stem stiff enough to not flop like larger MasterCams. I have also found it to compliment a #3 C4 quite well.

Love having my double for the c4 #3 as the dmm dragon #5. It's just a *hair* smaller than the bd and that difference nicely bridges the gap between gold and blue while still covering the #3 c4 range. It also feels amazing. I traded my heliums for some ice gear last season and don't miss them a bit.

If I had the $$$ when building my rack when I started I would have chosen dmm cams (and biners...) over bd gear which feels clunky and loose in comparison.

The dragons are basically the same size as the camalots in practice

Get the Heliums or demons if you want tweenahs

;)

I have a rack of helium friends.
One tip is that while they ARE rated for passive placement, they can be sketchy placed passively or tipped out.
Because a fully opened cam head can be rotated freely (besides the wires getting in the way), if you tip out a friend and it starts to slip the entire cam head can rotate 90deg, where it's considerably slimmer. This means it can pull right out. A twin axle cam will stay composed and there is a chance while it's pulling out that it'll catch something and stay put.
A double axle cam can't rotate freely, if it's tipped out the stem is basically locked in place.
Just a thought.
The helium friends are noticeably lighter. At the gunks (where I climb) I find that the friends CAN fit in places an exact size camalot doesn't. The friend head when retracted is sorta a circle, but the camalot head when retracted is sorta a square. Nothing is smooth at the gunks, so you are always finagleing a cam into an optimal position. In a crack out west I'm sure it doesn't matter at all.
The small size helium friends I don't like, the head is too wide and they aren't flexy enough for me. But again, I'm not climbing nice cracks.

Just FYI, for the next 9 minutes, they have the c4 package for $240 at steep and cheap. That's like $26 per cam. Amazing.

And some helium friends for 47

steepandcheap.com/gear-cach…

Jake Jones wrote: No. The package is 5 cams, .5-3 which puts the price at $48 per cam. Still a good deal though.

I wouldn't worry to much about getting it today, I have been seeing deals for the dragons, camlots, and heliums for about two weeks now on steepandcheap, as well as gear express. I'm pretty sure they are trying to clear space for the next generations that are coming out soon. So you should have some time to figure out what you really want, maybe even barrow some from a partner.