Soloist Devices

Sorry did I confuse you?

Capt. Impatient wrote:Sorry did I confuse you?

No, but then I've been at this for a long time and can tell which of the three is being talked about at any given time.

Ok sorry rope solo God... So you are telling me that on any rope solo device if you have a knot in the rope it won't keep you from decking?? Doesn't matter the oranation. If you have an opening in a device that only allows a rope width through it and you put a knot in the rope then that rope will not go through that device. Correct? So this could be used on top rope, lead and aid if needed. Lead and aid would require more math and fore thought but it could be done.

Capt. Impatient wrote:Ok sorry rope solo God... So you are telling me that on any rope solo device if you have a knot in the rope it won't keep you from decking?? Doesn't matter the oranation. If you have an opening in a device that only allows a rope width through it and you put a knot in the rope then that rope will not go through that device. Correct? So this could be used on top rope, lead and aid if needed. Lead and aid would require more math and fore thought but it could be done.

On the off chance you understand how a Soloist works for LEADING, imagine putting knots in the rope BELOW the device. How will these keep you from decking?

Capt. Impatient wrote:Ok sorry rope solo God... So you are telling me that on any rope solo device if you have a knot in the rope it won't keep you from decking?? Doesn't matter the oranation. If you have an opening in a device that only allows a rope width through it and you put a knot in the rope then that rope will not go through that device. Correct? So this could be used on top rope, lead and aid if needed. Lead and aid would require more math and fore thought but it could be done.

Definitely not a god of any kind, but I do have thousands of multi-pitch, free lead rope solo trad pitches under my belt at this point and am just trying to suggest we keep discussion of the different soloing modalities separate in order for things to be excruciatingly clear. This being a case in point of why that might be desirable - what works for TR solo often has little applicability to lead rope soloing and vice-versa.

Knots below you on lead are irrelevant; knots in the slack you have out on lead will help you if you're off the deck aways, but aren't much help in a scenario where a pitch has a crux right off the deck / ledge. That's because you have to have enough slack out to actually do the moves and a knot that hits the device while making the moves or instantly past it are going to be problematic in its own right. That and lead rope solo systems tend to have some slop in the system that's hard to avoid on hard moves so even with a piece in you may still end up with a problem if you blow it.

All that adds up to my recommendation of avoiding low cruxes while free lead rope soloing.

Well... First off the knots always go in the slack non-anchor side. So if on lead they would be below you till you advance them as you climb. Now if you are say three bolts up going for the fourth and you have a knot in the slack side of the rope ten feet below you and you pop off. First the third bolt will pull up on the device as you fall causing the device to lock as it does. Now say you somehow invert or turn sideways. The soloist DOES NOT hold in those positions so you would slip till your knot hit the soloist stopping you so you could right yourself at this point you maybe near the second bolt or piece of gear. But your not on the ground.

I'm not saying it's going to be a pleasent experience, it's going to jerk you around but you won't be on the deck waiting for rescue or for someone to happen upon you. ( always let people know where you are and if you decide to change areas tell them. I personal have three people that I tell for every solo trip) . I wish I had a way to draw it up for people to explain this it's hard to type out.

Healyje wrote: ... In general, as a rule of thumb, I would encourage folks to keep TR solo, aid solo and lead rope solo posts in separate dedicated threads and not mix those discussions in any single thread as it's easy for someone new to all this to get confused about how and when to apply what's being said..

I agree, it irks me when people hijack a thread about lead rope soloing and comment about TR soloing. Two different worlds, IMO.

Capt. Impatient wrote:Well... First off the knots always go in the slack non-anchor side. So if on lead they would be below you till you advance them as you climb. Now if you are say three bolts up going for the fourth and you have a knot in the slack side of the rope ten feet below you and you pop off. First the third bolt will pull up on the device as you fall causing the device to lock as it does.

All true, but if you're attempting a crux at the first or second bolt - i.e. a low crux - there will likely be a enough slack out and in the system, combined with rope stretch, for you to deck. My suggestion is to avoid such routes.

I like how you always pull a quote... If you are leading. (This is going to open a whole new debate). If your soloing bring a stick clip and per clip the first two.

Capt. Impatient wrote:If your soloing bring a stick clip and per clip the first two.

Soloing of any kind is by definition and intensely personal affair and everyone has to sort out on their own what works for them, particularly when talking about free lead rope soloing. Ditto for stick-clipping - never have, never will as I only trad climb - but sure, to each his own.