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Gear for mixed routes?

Original Post
Kate Caron · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2015 · Points: 0

We're 90% sport climbers. Every once in awhile we come upon a mixed route that looks fun but requires a couple pieces of gear. We don't have any and we don't really ever plan on getting into full on trad climbing. What pieces would you include in your rack if you were building one solely for the purpose of being able to do mixed routes?

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911

a full set of cams.

Kristen Fiore · · Burlington, VT · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 3,383
Kate Caron wrote:We're 90% sport climbers. Every once in awhile we come upon a mixed route that looks fun but requires a couple pieces of gear. We don't have any and we don't really ever plan on getting into full on trad climbing. What pieces would you include in your rack if you were building one solely for the purpose of being able to do mixed routes?
A set of classic nuts (it excludes the smallest and biggest ones) and .3 - .75 cams
Kristen Fiore · · Burlington, VT · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 3,383
T Roper wrote:a full set of cams.
I think the idea was what are the most essential pieces without buying a full set of cams...
Noah Haber · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 78

This question is extremely specific to the area, and even specific climb, you are doing. There is no such thing as a "standard" mixed rack to bring on a route, so you are pretty much looking at getting a light, but full trad rack to be able to climb most mixed you come across.

A light, but full rack in 2015 consists roughly of the following:
A single set of nuts
A single set of medium - large cams (BD C4 sizes #.5/#.4 to #2/#3)
A single set of small cams, as small as you want to go (sizes specific to the brand, but roughly 3-5 cams smaller than your smallest C4 size)

However, that doesn't mean you have to haul the whole set up with you on every route. With some luck and gear beta, you might know what you need to bring with you.

M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
KrisFiore wrote: I think the idea was what are the most essential pieces without buying a full set of cams...
doesnt really matter , one cant just magically expect to have the right piece. you need a small rack.

I cant say I've ever done a mixed route onsight without a full light rack so add the stoppers to the list as well!
Chris Schmidt · · Fruita, CO · Joined Nov 2012 · Points: 0

Get stoppers and piece mail together cams as you need them.

With these sorts of routes you should be able to find out exactly what cams are needed either listed in the pro or in the comments. I would guess .3-1 will be the most useful. Or 2-6 Metolius. You should be able to snag 5 cams for around $250 or less if you buy used.

If you want the ability to climb routes you have not pre-selected then you will have to buy and carry more gear...

frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
T Roper wrote:a full set of cams.
Not sure I agree with this. I'd go with a full set of nuts and pick up some hexes for larger stuff. Way cheaper and lighter too. I don't think learning to place gear, which you're basically doing, should be done using cams.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
frank minunni wrote: Not sure I agree with this. I'd go with a full set of nuts and pick up some hexes for larger stuff. Way cheaper and lighter too. I don't think learning to place gear, which you're basically doing, should be done using cams.
I dont think people learning should be placing stoppers or hexes to keep them from decking either, thats not the question though.

I'm with you on the hexes. Maybe forget the cams and get a set of tricams up to blue or brown to go with the stoppers and hexes, thats a cheap ass light rack there.
frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
T Roper wrote: Maybe forget the cams and get a set of tricams up to blue or brown to go with the stoppers and hexes, thats a cheap ass light rack there.
Good call on the tricams. I forgot to mention them. A lot of people don't like them but I love them. They fit in odd places, work great in horizontals and can be placed like a stopper.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
frank minunni wrote: Good call on the tricams. I forgot to mention them. A lot of people don't like them but I love them. They fit in odd places, work great in horizontals and can be placed like a stopper.
I used to hate them. After spending time at the Gunks, even a day or two with no cams I respect them now and think they would have worked on most mixed routes I've ever done.
FrankPS · · Atascadero, CA · Joined Nov 2009 · Points: 276

Why are you limiting yourself to sport routes? You might enjoy trad climbs.

csproul · · Pittsboro...sort of, NC · Joined Dec 2009 · Points: 330

This is kind of an unanswerable question without having specific routes and areas in mind. Of all the mixed routes around the country, there is going to be a huge assortment of different pieces that will protect those routes. So essentially, the answer to the question as asked is that you really do need a small rack that covers most everything. Nobody can be more specific than that without knowing what you intend to climb. I've climbed mixed routes that took tiny stoppers, tricams, mid-sized nust and cams, all the way up to large cams.

So, basically what Shoo said above.

Allen Sanderson · · On the road to perdition · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 1,203
T Roper wrote: I dont think people learning should be placing stoppers or hexes to keep them from decking either, thats not the question though. I'm with you on the hexes. Maybe forget the cams and get a set of tricams up to blue or brown to go with the stoppers and hexes, thats a cheap ass light rack there.
That is rather pedantic. Cams may fit a wider variety of placements are not any more fool proof that nuts. Both take practice to set properly.

For the OP, buy a set six or so medium sized nuts and a set of six cams from .3 to 2. That will get you started. However, realize that a route that takes gear may require doubles of some sizes.

BTW a mixed route is one the is comprised of ice and rock - not gear and bolts.
frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
Allen Sanderson wrote: BTW a mixed route is one the is comprised of ice and rock - not gear and bolts.
Not true. "Mixed Route" can be applied to either, depending on the context.
Jon Frisby · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 270

set of used nuts + one or two cams (.75 and .4 or .5 and #1). Even better, a link cam

Jon Frisby · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 270
frank minunni wrote: Not true. "Mixed Route" can be applied to either, depending on the context.
It has been coopted to mean this but should really only refer to true mixed climbing. It's poor vocabulary to have one word mean two very dissimilar things. These routes in reality should be called T/S.
frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95
Jon Frisby wrote: It has been coopted to mean this but should really only refer to true mixed climbing. It's poor vocabulary to have one word mean two very dissimilar things. These routes in reality should be called T/S.
Nonsense. Mixed for trad/bolts has been used since the mid 80s. I've never seen anyone get confused when I use the term mixed regarding gear. You're splitting hairs. I've never heard a route referred to as T/S. Case in point: Has anyone on this thread misinterpreted what the OP was referring to?
Gunks Jesse · · Shawangunk Township, NY · Joined May 2014 · Points: 111

Be very careful using OP Link Cams... I'm surprised to see someone who climbs at the Gunks quite frequently promote link cams. It is critical that you get those placed with the anticipated direction of fall and that is impossible in horizontals. It puts the stem in a situation that can lead to failure.

Jon - do you use link cams in the Gunks?

Alec O · · Norwich, VT · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 31
Gunks Jesse wrote:Be very careful using OP Link Cams... I'm surprised to see someone who climbs at the Gunks quite frequently promote link cams. It is critical that you get those placed with the anticipated direction of fall and that is impossible in horizontals. It puts the stem in a situation that can lead to failure. Jon - do you use link cams in the Gunks?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that's quite right. Yes, the LinkCam failures have occurred when the stem isn't facing the anticipated direction of fall. But the problem has occurred in placements in vertical cracks where the stem is facing straight out so the cam is rotated down and torsional force is applied. In a horizontal crack, although the stem bends over the lip, the force on the cam actually is pulling almost straight in line with the stem (assuming you fall in line with the stem and not off to the side). So, the problem with bad LinkCam placements shouldn't have anything to do with horizontal cracks, right? It's just about poor placement orientation in vertical cracks (or, I suppose poor placement orientation in any cracks).

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but that was my understanding. See this thread that discusses almost this precise issue: supertopo.com/climbers-foru…
bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065
Gunks Jesse wrote:Be very careful using OP Link Cams... I'm surprised to see someone who climbs at the Gunks quite frequently promote link cams. It is critical that you get those placed with the anticipated direction of fall and that is impossible in horizontals. It puts the stem in a situation that can lead to failure. Jon - do you use link cams in the Gunks?
no ... its fine in horizontals

link cams are one of the most misunderstood pieces of gear ... the key is

- placing them where there isnt sheer forces against the lobes

- extending em so they dont walk

i own a full set and have whipped on all of em ... the small purple has seen 20+ whippers, many in horizontals

partner last year taking 5 whips in a row on a purple link cam in a horizontal ....

purple link cam whip !!!

as to what folks should carry .... ALWAYS carry a set of nuts on mixed route and make sure a few of em are the ones where you can push the head down

same for less travelled or multipitch sport routes ... if the hanger is missing youll need to do the old lasso the stud trick

tricams work fine for more moderate routes ... but once it gets harder they can be a biatch to place and extract for the second

they also have a nasty tendency to rattle out on vertical parallel cracks especially if you dun sling em long

honestly just get a single rack and a set of nuts ... thats what they recommend for places like skaha and the canadian rockies where theres quite a few mixed climbs

;)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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