Chopping a few of my own bolts to make a route mixed to get the FA back

20 kN wrote: I would say no. The first person to climb a route is the first person, regardless of how it's protected. If a route is free soloed or climbed on gear, then later bolted and climbed again on sport, the guy who climbed it on sport does not get the FA as the FA has already been established.

Bloody well right...

20 kN wrote:The first person to climb a route is the first person, regardless of how it's protected. If a route is free soloed or climbed on gear, then later bolted and climbed again on sport, the guy who climbed it on sport does not get the FA as the FA has already been established.

In general the above is true. However, there is a long history of acknowledging later ascents when done either clean or free. That mostly pertains to aid lines though and in the case of an aid line being freed sometimes it may be given a new name (East Face of the Washington Column aka Astroman). More recently acknowledgement is given when routes are done sans bolts using only nuts and cams. This may be before or after bolts are placed.

As for the OP, it sounds although you did the route. So you get the FA. Get the rep point and call it good.

I think there is the assumption that the person who's name is on the FA/FFA is the person who spotted the route/line, did the work, etc. That this person was the one with the inspiration, creativity, and labour. And, that's why we see it as important to get/be the FA/FFAist of routes.

I know I've scrubbed, trundled, and bolted routes -- then said to a friend... hey, bolted this last week, you want the first lead on it? I've already got my name on a few other routes, so I wasn't worried about it, but definitely the memory of my work (rather than hers) is lost. That I regret a bit, and I wonder if there is some way we (as a community) could do better.

"He was straight from the gym "

So some guy straight from the gym FA'd your route?
I'm not sure I'd admit to that... :)

Mark O'Neal wrote:"He was straight from the gym " So some guy straight from the gym FA'd your route? I'm not sure I'd admit to that... :)

After this thread you will not be forgotten... Is that mean?

Allen Sanderson wrote: In general the above is true. However, there is a long history of acknowledging later ascents when done either clean or free. That mostly pertains to aid lines though and in the case of an aid line being freed sometimes it may be given a new name (East Face of the Washington Column aka Astroman). More recently acknowledgement is given when routes are done sans bolts using only nuts and cams. This may be before or after bolts are placed. As for the OP, it sounds although you did the route. So you get the FA. Get the rep point and call it good.

Yes, and in the case of a sport route it's typically something like FA or "route equiper" as the person who eyed the line, cleaned it and bolted it. The FFA would be the guy who redpointed it.

Personally, in the case of a single pitch sport route, unless the route is a test piece or has some other serious history, I dont think the FFA means much unless the FFA truly wants his/ her name mentioned. I mean, do you really care who got the first redpoint of some 5.11 sport climb on a wall with 500 other 5.11 sport climbs? Probably not. The FA on the other hand is a different story as that tells me who actually put in the work and money into establishing the line.

Mark, I would just put yourself down as the FA (which you have since you bolted it and reached the top first) and call it done.

20 kN wrote: I mean, do you really care who got the first redpoint of some 5.11 sport climb on a wall with 500 other 5.11 sport climbs? Probably not. The FA on the other hand is a different story as that tells me who actually put in the work and money into establishing the line.

Not only that, often you can tell how well the route has been cleaned, bolted and conceived by who put it up.

Some developers fail to spend the time to properly clean a route: "It'll clean up after a few hundred ascents". These are often the same people who create "clip-cruxes" or dangerous falls by poor bolt placements.

On the other hand, good developers create good routes: clean, bolts in the right places and great movement.

20 kN wrote:Mark, I would just put yourself down as the FA (which you have since you bolted it and reached the top first) and call it done.

Yup. That is, if you're a good developer ;-)

T Howes wrote:Just add a sit-start.

Indeed-a-rooney!

What happens in Mexico stays in Mexico, Mark. Don't chop the bolts, name the route One Armed Bandito. We'll be down to Potrero after Xmas, going to make a trip to El Salto and Cumbia after NYE. Maybe we'll make a stop at the Tooth and see if we can snake some of your FA's. Any route suggestions? #threadjack

So if you put the bolts up already you either one aleready FA'd or two you set the route top down. Top down routes are not FAs.

ViperScale wrote: . But if a random person came in and saw some bolts and didn't know how long it had been maybe they did it by accident.

I did exactly that to two routes. Got to the cliff, saw the bolts and thought they looked good. Climbed them both. The person who put the bolts in cam by as were doing something else and asked me if I did them. When I said yes, he was a little downcast but understood. Told him I had no idea they were projects. He was totally cool since he knows me and knows I would never poach someone's route. I've put in enough to know how shitty it would feel. Really nice routes too.
If there was a tag on a bolt, I never would have gotten on it.

Jeremy in Inyokern wrote:So if you put the bolts up already you either one aleready FA'd or two you set the route top down. Top down routes are not FAs.

They maybe shouldnt be but they are.

If you bolted where there is gear then you're a dick

Call it "Gym Jammed."

Check your ego, then move on

Everyone wants credit for their vision, hard work, awesome route, etc. People who purposely snake routes are selfish. If people are working the line leave it, if it has been sitting for a year or two it's open. The person who did the work can be handled in the description. This route was cleaned and bolted by Ray Ringle. FA 12 year old beast from the gym. My climbing partner Jim Scott loves to give routes to people including some that have become area classics after we have done the work. I have come to embrace this practice. Unless it is a route that will test me it is fun to let someone who will find it more challenging test their skills. We have put up hundreds of routes so what do we care if our name is listed first on another climb. FA: Gym Beast, EFR, JSt,'2015 most people know who did the work.

Nathan Self wrote:Call it "Gym Jammed."

Why did you bolt a crack climb?

Oh sweet bringing my post back to life. The climb is a 5.13 line out a limestone cave there are a few spots where the seam opens up and you could put in gear they are also the only spots for your fingers.