JOSHUA TREE

WTF!!

First trip of the season and it was more crowded than ever. I was told the park sold a record number of annual passes in a day on Saturday. The park was full of f**k'tards like this (in the picture I attached). Hammocks on Joshua Trees, trash everywhere, top rope gang-bangs of fifteen or more people, and groups of twenty people dragging crashpads through bushes. I wish I would have taken a picture of each scenario.

I took the photo after I bitched at them to get their hammocks out of the trees. They took one hammock down but had to get a shot to spruce up their instagrams with the second one before taking it down. If every hipster that comes to the park hangs their s**t in the trees this season, we won't have any trees. No respect or etiquette was super prevalent.

I'm not trying to sound like a grump ranger but help make a difference. Tell people, "Hey, it isn't kosher to top rope off the rap rings. Are you gonna replace them?" Take photos of them and post it to expose people trashing our favorite spots.

Sounds awful, there are definitely too many people in the world!

...Too many BOZOS...

Poor joshua tree

These kinds of people make me feel like such a curmudgeon.I can barely stand going to some of the big destination areas anymore. Smith, Bishop, Yosemite, and Josh have all become total shit shows!!

Just spoke with J-tree Ranger Patty. It is ILLEGAL to touch, modify, alter or otherwise contact Joshua Trees in the park. These are the people who give humans, and climbers are humans, a bad name. Find a ranger, bust these fuktards.

Edit: Ranger also said all campgrounds are filling by Thursday noon. CROWD-ed

Do your part and expose them. You might not be the type of person to say something but will wish you did when they close places to climbing. If you don't get mad, think of how mad you will be if that happens.

Walk right up and point blank take their picture and tell them why you are doing it.

What a f'ing shame. The mainstream-ization of "enjoying the great outdoors" is destroying the great outdoors that people want in their own egotistical Instagram posts.

Whatever we are doing now obviously isn't working. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's only going to get worse.

Muscrat wrote:Just spoke with J-tree Ranger Patty. It is ILLEGAL to touch, modify, alter or otherwise contact Joshua Trees in the park. These are the people who give humans, and climbers are humans, a bad name. Find a ranger, bust these fuktards. Edit: Ranger also said all campgrounds are filling by Thursday noon. CROWD-ed

HV and Ryan were filled Thursday before noon!I couldn't believe as I got the last available site between them Thursday morning.

I am well aware of the rules with mounting hammocks, portaledges or any bivy to trees; hence the reason I said something to them and a ranger. Don't be shy, say something.

polloloco wrote:What a f'ing shame. The mainstream-ization of "enjoying the great outdoors" is destroying the great outdoors that people want in their own egotistical Instagram posts. Whatever we are doing now obviously isn't working. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's only going to get worse.

+1
I couldn't agree more

polloloco wrote:What a f'ing shame. The mainstream-ization of "enjoying the great outdoors" is destroying the great outdoors that people want in their own egotistical Instagram posts. Whatever we are doing now obviously isn't working. I'm not sure what the answer is, but it's only going to get worse.

Crazy chicken, you got it dude! +100

I was up in J-tree last friday(6th-8th, for the very first time) at Ryan camp and saturday night a large group of teens set up right next to us and absolutely destroyed the camp site with trash everywhere, beer & glass bottles laying around and were blasting rap music.....Really kids? Go back to USC/UCLA and do that shit. Maybe I'm too old fashioned or just enjoy being a dysfunctional veteran and like my peace and quiet away from society in the outdoors while I'm climbing ;) I guess it comes from not disciplining kids and not raising them how to respect the outdoors when they get outside of the city. They still think they're partying in the dorm rooms.

Hey guys and gals, it is our jobs as the stewards of the mountains to educate others! This makes me angry too but we its important as more people wish to explore these amazing places we teach them good habits and explain why their actions are bad. I doubt these noobs wanted to harm a Joshua tree they are just ignorant and its probably their first hammock placement.

Nothing goes farther than patiently explaining to someone why their actions are bad. It certainly takes courage to go up to a group and explain to them why they should reconsider their actions. You may be percieved as an ass, but if you educate you know that they will reconsider next time or the time after. Even throwing in a little history about the area.

The wrong way (I'm not saying you did it incorrectly just an example): Hey you *^%$& noobs, ur gonna f that tree up get real! Don't you know anything!? (no they don't know anything, they're noobs)

The right way: Hi my name is Grog (intro yourself to make it personal). Where are you from? I'm glad you came to Jtree, isn't it beautiful? The expectation here is that you don't touch Joshua trees, they are part of the fragile desert ecosystem and get permanatly damaged easily. (Then engage them) Why did you put it up? Or will you please take it down?

If you do it correctly, the noobs will pass it on and explain it to the next group they see!

"" Maybe I'm too old fashioned or just enjoy being a dysfunctional veteran and like my peace and quiet away from society in the outdoors while I'm climbing ......"

Colin... thank you for your service. You are 35 years to late, if your going to JT to find peace and quiet, PM me if you want to get a short list of better places to go and find just what your looking for....

Brian.... Thank you for stepping up and speaking out.

I figure it's only a matter of time before the whole "I just hike into the 'backcountry' to camp" thing is going to be shut down by the Park officials. Wholesale groups wheeling a cooler full of beer out the Boy Scout Trail to enhance their wilderness camping experience is just one example. Not remotely sustainable.

Of all the places I've climbed, j tree takes the cake for "trad" area shit show. The place redefined top rope gang bang for me.

It's pretty peaceful and quiet in the park during the week, except during long holidays and Christmas/Easter vacations from school.

"The place redefined IMPOSSIBLE top rope gang bang for me."

Fixed it for you......

Back in the Mid 90's.... (gasp, I know that was the dark ages) Myself and many others went to war with the freshly installed bolted anchors that were starting to grow at the top of the popular climbs.

For "Safety, for convenience" - was the rational that was used by the pro bolt anchors folks... we countered with the whole, there are anchors at the top of most climbs, one need to know how to make them and do the walk offs/down climbs that were part of Josh Climbing.

But heck this is a double thread.... matt c already made one for grumpy old men.... and our complaints.

I am quite happy to see that some of the youth today really do get IT.

Keep up the fight

Grog, I explained to them in a non-threatening way that was somewhere in between nice and not nice. If I take the time to be "nice educator guy" to all the people needing education, I will never get any climbing done.

I was a noob and never did stupid s**t like what I have been seeing. I didn't learn to climb and invite twenty of my buds out to gang bang a climb off the rap rings. I don't park my friend's extra cars in other people's sites.

I don't think people should have to walk up and say, "Hey friends, my name is...... Let me share a bunch of common sense s**t you should have learned before coming out here." People have too big of egos for that crap. Everyone knows everything now days and they don't want any messages; it doesn't matter how you deliver them.

I'm just saying, I've done mean guy and nice guy. Somewhere in between always gets the best results.

Take a photo and make them famous.

Brian, thanks for saying something to them. I know its a pain in the ass. As grog stated, it is really important to try to educate not just bitch. If you bitch as someone the will change their behavior while you are watching; if you convince someone they will not only change their behavior but help educate others. If you are going to take someone's pic and fume about their silly actions it might be better just to have a discussion about it.

Guy - I always like hearing about the dark monument ages. Frankly, I don't feel like a have climbed at Josh enough to participate in the bolting ethics but I have climbed there enough to truly appreciate the minimalist approach in protecting a lot of climbs. I do hope this ethic is preserved as the elderly start disappearing.

I have been going to J-Tree off and on since the 90's! I have seen changes in the park and people who visit the park. It is very frustrating to see how it has changed. The NPS needs to take a good long look at the camping problem, and yes it is now a problem. Not enough spots, no over flow parking, and on and on.
But it is well within us as stewards of the park it inform people. So we can protect the park. Happy Climbing! I am going this weekend someone save me a spot :)

Some great dialog here. I personally try to explain nicely whenever I see something going on. Most of the time they apologize and then go back to doing the same thing...

Anyways, even with the community outreach us climbers and outdoor enthusiasts pursue, there are simply too many people. Talk to one group about packing out trash, and you have another 10 people on the other side throwing banana peels and tissue paper on the ground while blasting their music. We're at a point where there are so many uneducated, entitled people that mentoring strangers just doesn't work.

You now have gym climbers coming in groups of 10+ led by 1 person that maybe only started climbing a year ago and has no clue of leave no trace principles. And that's on top of the typical park tourists putting their hammocks on Joshua trees.

As much as I hate to say it, maybe we need a permit system. (ie paved trail only access vs off trail, climbers permits etc) I know... that sounds terrible, but I can't think of any other way. More rangers? ... ideas? Bueller?

polloloco wrote:much as I hate to say it, maybe we need a permit system. (ie paved trail only access vs off trail, climbers permits etc) I know... that sounds terrible, but I can't think of any other way. More rangers? ... ideas? Bueller?

Oh great, so figuring out a trip to Jtree can be as much fun as Hueco. Really it's simple: bitch at and/or attempt to educate nitwits, climb obscure routes or don't try to fool yourself that weekends in the late fall/winter are a good time to be alone unless you're willing to go out into the Wonderland (the thru hike to Indian Cove is dope)
Getting a permit to climb just seems completely antithetical to the very reason why so many of us climb in the first place.
If you don't like the hordes, don't want to impart proper practices on idiots and don't want to be policed, go midweek or climb elsewhere.