Where in the USA? Best small to medium-size climbing town

T Roper wrote: After spending close to 20 years in the SLC area I'll say all of that is true and the mid winter climbing can be awesome somewhere in the state BUT the air quality for about 100 days a year can be so bad that everyone you know is getting sick. When you live right next to huge mountains and you cant see them through the smog it gets a little depressing.

Having lived in the SLC area for close to 30 years now, I have to say that I think 100 days is a huge exaggeration, I mean that would be over 3 months out of the year. I agree that the air quality can get bad and be annoying, but it's never been enough to really bother me.

For a more realistic view of how the air quality goes, there is usually about a 3 month window where you will have bad air quality days. Generally the air quality slowly gets worse and worse until it is to the point that T Roper talks about above where you can't see the mountains through the inversion. This is usually only for a day or two, but may last a week or so until a storm rolls through. The storm will clear the air and the air quality will generally be pretty good for the next week, but then the inversion will start to build again until the next storm hits. In reality there are probably less than 25 days a year that have really terrible air quality. The air quality certainly can get annoying and depressing, so do take it into account as you decide, but I wanted you to have a more realistic view of how bad it is.

kennoyce wrote: Having lived in the SLC area for close to 30 years now, I have to say that I think 100 days is a huge exaggeration, I mean that would be over 3 months out of the year. I agree that the air quality can get bad and be annoying, but it's never been enough to really bother me. For a more realistic view of how the air quality goes, there is usually about a 3 month window where you will have bad air quality days. Generally the air quality slowly gets worse and worse until it is to the point that T Roper talks about above where you can't see the mountains through the inversion. This is usually only for a day or two, but may last a week or so until a storm rolls through. The storm will clear the air and the air quality will generally be pretty good for the next week, but then the inversion will start to build again until the next storm hits. In reality there are probably less than 25 days a year that have really terrible air quality. The air quality certainly can get annoying and depressing, so do take it into account as you decide, but I wanted you to have a more realistic view of how bad it is.

I'm hoping Denver doesn't keep getting worse. We already have the "brown cloud", but luckily it's windy enough here most of the year it's not a problem. Summer is worst on the days when it's 100 without even a whisper of a breeze.

kennoyce wrote: Having lived in the SLC area for close to 30 years now, I have to say that I think 100 days is a huge exaggeration, I mean that would be over 3 months out of the year. I agree that the air quality can get bad and be annoying, but it's never been enough to really bother me. For a more realistic view of how the air quality goes, there is usually about a 3 month window where you will have bad air quality days. Generally the air quality slowly gets worse and worse until it is to the point that T Roper talks about above where you can't see the mountains through the inversion. This is usually only for a day or two, but may last a week or so until a storm rolls through. The storm will clear the air and the air quality will generally be pretty good for the next week, but then the inversion will start to build again until the next storm hits. In reality there are probably less than 25 days a year that have really terrible air quality. The air quality certainly can get annoying and depressing, so do take it into account as you decide, but I wanted you to have a more realistic view of how bad it is.

The 20+ bad days(which vary year to year) are days when they recommend people stay inside and avoid any outdoor activities! These are the days where the valley has the absolute worst air to breathe in the nation. 7th worst air quality in the nation as of 2015.

Of course you can just rally(SUV of course) it up the canyon and go ski or climb while looking down on the cesspool of brown air.

Sam Fox wrote:Burlington VT or Keene NY (Semi-rough winter, cowboy up) Nearby (<30mins) - Smugglers notch (Bouldering, sport, trad) - Bolton (bouldering, sport, trad) Day trip - Rumney (1 1/2hrs) (great sport, bouldering) - Cannon cliff (1 1/2hrs) (badass trad) - Poko-Moonshine (1 1/2hrs) (badass sport, bouldering, trad) - Adirondaks (1-2hrs) (Great bouldering, sport, trad) - THE GUNKS (3 1/2hrs) (such rad trad, killer bouldering) Weekend/week trips - Red River Gorge (8 hours) My neck of the woods

I know that this has been addressed already, but I just want to make it really clear that this is a terrible fit for the requirements the OP laid out.

"Semi-rough" winter? Last winter, it snowed every month from October through late April. We had 3 days that my local school (I'm a teacher) was cancelled because (with windchill), the forecasted high temperature was around -35 degrees. Then there was the 6 days that school was cancelled due to snowfall. There was a stretch of about 2 weeks that I don't think the temperature ever broke into double digits. If that isn't an "epic winter", I don't know what is.

Smuggler's Notch bouldering is fun, but limited. Bouldering in Bolton is downright terrible with the exception of two hard boulders that aren't published anywhere. Sport climbing in Bolton is pretty crappy too, the exception being the 82 Crag, which is rather sharp, and gets full sun.

Rumney is awesome, but your estimate of 1 1/2 hours is way off. I go on most weekends, and if I'm speeding and don't stop to piss, it takes 2 hours. You can plan on 2 hours and 15 minutes at least for most trips.

The Daks, the Gunks, and Cannon don't apply because the OP asked for bouldering and sport.

8 hours to get to the Red? That's lunacy. Probably double that.

Then factor in that besides the winter being long (and definitely epic), the spring is often quite rainy and wet, the bugs are terrible for all of spring and summer, and the heat and humidity is off the charts in the summer. Good climbing conditions usually last for about 8 weeks in the fall (if you get lucky).

I love Burlington. It's an awesome town, but definitely not a place to move to for the climbing. Hell, the only reason I'm thinking of leaving is the climbing.

Rob is right on here, I left Burlington because I got sick of the lack of climbing (and started a business elsewhere) but make no mistake about it, the winters are brutal and epic. Besides those things VT is an amazing place to live, the only reason I haven't gone back is because I can't stand the schist.

Rob DeBruyn wrote: I know that this has been addressed already, but I just want to make it really clear that this is a terrible fit for the requirements the OP laid out. "Semi-rough" winter? Last winter, it snowed every month from October through late April. We had 3 days that my local school (I'm a teacher) was cancelled because (with windchill), the forecasted high temperature was around -35 degrees. Then there was the 6 days that school was cancelled due to snowfall. There was a stretch of about 2 weeks that I don't think the temperature ever broke into double digits. If that isn't an "epic winter", I don't know what is. Smuggler's Notch bouldering is fun, but limited. Bouldering in Bolton is downright terrible with the exception of two hard boulders that aren't published anywhere. Sport climbing in Bolton is pretty crappy too, the exception being the 82 Crag, which is rather sharp, and gets full sun. Rumney is awesome, but your estimate of 1 1/2 hours is way off. I go on most weekends, and if I'm speeding and don't stop to piss, it takes 2 hours. You can plan on 2 hours and 15 minutes at least for most trips. The Daks, the Gunks, and Cannon don't apply because the OP asked for bouldering and sport. 8 hours to get to the Red? That's lunacy. Probably double that. Then factor in that besides the winter being long (and definitely epic), the spring is often quite rainy and wet, the bugs are terrible for all of spring and summer, and the heat and humidity is off the charts in the summer. Good climbing conditions usually last for about 8 weeks in the fall (if you get lucky). I love Burlington. It's an awesome town, but definitely not a place to move to for the climbing. Hell, the only reason I'm thinking of leaving is the climbing.

Sam Fox wrote:
Burlington VT or Keene NY (Semi-rough winter, cowboy up)...

Rob DeBruyn wrote:I know that this has been addressed already, but I just want to make it really clear that this is a terrible fit for the requirements the OP laid out. "Semi-rough" winter? Last winter, it snowed every month from October through late April. We had 3 days that my local school (I'm a teacher) was cancelled because (with windchill), the forecasted high temperature was around -35 degrees. Then there was the 6 days that school was cancelled due to snowfall. There was a stretch of about 2 weeks that I don't think the temperature ever broke into double digits. If that isn't an "epic winter", I don't know what is.

Over on onlyinyourstate.com/vermont…
they mention Vermont winters in a few items on the You Know You're From VT page:
10. You have more miles on your snow blower than your car.

12. You know ALL the seasons: almost winter, winter, still winter, mud and road construction.

13. You find 10 degrees “a little chilly.”

Saw on the forum that someone was asking a similar question again, and now, over a year after I asked my question, I remembered this post. Thanks for all the great answers! If we ever get back to the USA I have a better idea where to move!

As it turns out we ended up staying overseas (southern part of Africa), and although it doesn't have a lot of my original "demands" - only two seasons (hot and not-so-hot), no gym (small training area in garage) - it ticks a lot of boxes too. World-class sport destination in Waterval-Boven about 2 hours away; more boulders to be explored than you could ever do in a lifetime of climbing; several other destinations in South Africa in the 5-15 hours drive range.

Best part is no crowds! Worst part is we have black mambas and green mambas!

Ana Tine wrote:How can you guys just move wherever you want? Are you independently wealthy / trust fund people?

Haha, pretty much as far from that as possible. We work with an international aid organization for less than minimum US wage. It's a developing country so cost of living is low, and you give up a lot of the western conveniences.

Regarding being able to potentially move most places in the USA...my wife and I are both qualified as teachers. So given our multi-cultural, multi-lingual experiences, most rural/small town school districts would be potential landing spots.

Waterval Boven is pretty great. Where are you - somewhere like Witbank or Nelspruit?

I would never move to VT just for the rock climbing. I would certainly move here for the ice climbing.

Andrew Gram wrote:Waterval Boven is pretty great. Where are you - somewhere like Witbank or Nelspruit?

Don't live in SA...neighboring Swaziland.

Boven, to me, is one of the best destinations in the world. I've climbed in RRG (obviously an entire different style) and I would take Boven over RRG every time. No crowds, easy walk-in, really great quality climbing from 5.10-5.12. Also Boven's elevation allows for year-round climbing.

MClay wrote:Thanks for the replies...St. George has been on my list for awhile.

Personal opinion: Cedar City > St George. About 45 minutes north and 3500-4000 feet higher. Actually gets four season (St George has two... Damn hot, and pretty nice). Smaller, but has a better arts scene and less traffic. The climbing scene is essentially the same (by which I don't mean similar, I mean actually the same people... Both are small enough that it's a pretty regional climbing scene).

Jake Jones wrote:Fayetteville, WV. 7-8 hours gets you climbing all winter long. The winters are a little epic-ish though, but you're not going to get Munsoned out in the middle of nowhere.

No climbing gym, though.

Lander, Wy
It's small, but it's super climber friendly.
Winters can be challenging, but the local crag is climbable more than 300 days a year. This includes December, January and February. Excellent place to raise a family.
Finding work is another crux, but a lot off people make due.
4 hours to SLC.
5 hours to Fort Collins if you need to go to places like that. Wyoming is stacked with climbing.

Colonel Mustard wrote:Low cost of living is the thorn in the side of many of the climbing towns, it seems. I wouldn't cast aside Smith Rock (Bend, OR) either.

Housing cost in Bend these days are almost on par with Portland - skyhigh in other words and still climbing.

A sleeper would be Carbondale, IL - dirt cheap college town with rock similar to TN and KY.

Chattanooga
good schools and great place to get kids climbing.
Great amount of sport and bouldering.
North carolina, obed, and rrg within a close trip
All four seasons, with no awful winters since its still in the south.
TBA is an incredible gym for training to get super strong
High Point is a great gym for practicing sport climbing and getting kids climbing

Jasper, AR Great eats at Ozark Café, restaurant at Low Gap. Horseshoe Canyon Ranch, Sam's Throne, Cowell, Cave Creek, Beauty Mountain, Haw Creek Falls, Stack Rock and More. Sport, Trad, Bouldering, Hiking (Buffalo River Trail, Ozark Highlands Trail, Biking (Buffalo Gravel Grinder, Upper Buffalo Wilderness), Canoeing, Caving, Zip Lines, Disc Golf, Horseback riding. Still room for development with miles of cliff line.

Berkeley we have stuff from V-easy to V12

Ken Noyce wrote: I would just add that it may be prudent to visit St. George prior to making the leap if you do decide to go that way. Personally, I absolutely love the climbing in St. George and the surrounding areas, but the culture is something that would make me think two or three times before deciding to move there.

Depends on what you mean by "culture." St. George is very family friendly.

Lynn Stephens wrote: Depends on what you mean by "culture." St. George is very family friendly.

I am sitting in Perks in St. George after bouldering while passing through, and I would say this is a pretty cool place. Been here since Wednesday morning.