First ascents / bolts

Typically after the first spot that you have to clip into something to lever off a loose block or the first time you have to hang off something to get the bolt in it simply does not matter anymore. you are now trying to equip the best free climb possible for tomorrow or next weekend when you will come back and hopefully send. Obviously YMMV but those of us who really care about the quality of the finished climb are inclined twords this approach.

Jeremy in Inyokern wrote: given. I admit that 1. Most Eastside ground up FAs are free when possible. 2. I lumped ORG into this catagory off hand. 3. I would be interested in the history of most of the areas I climb in. 4. I bet a bunch of those folks are on this board.

ORG is a bit different than the rest of the East Side in FA ethics. You might want to pick up Marty Lewis' guide and read the history and FA ethics sections. About half the ORG sport routes were equipped on rappel, the other half ground up. Many, many of those involved hanging on gear and hooks to place the bolts.

Marc801 wrote: ...pick up Marty Lewis' guide ...

been to cheap to buy it since I only ORG a coule times a year.

A lot of how bolts go in is the area situation, it's a bit of a pain at Ownes to rap bolt a lot of stuff AND the f'a teams were mostly really proficient in hooking to get bolts in.

Most people now say that it's only the end result that counts...i disagree. The experience of putting up a route ground up, on sight is a pretty cool experience

john strand wrote:... The experience of putting up a route ground up, on sight is a pretty cool experience

I like you. Not sure who that says more about though.

John of course it is. I much prefer to GU than top down. The thing is though if your not slab climbing chances are pretty darn good you will have to hook or beak to get a bolt in sooner or later. If you are on a completly raw cliff with a lot of loose rock you will probobly need to clip something bomber, get the rope in a safe spot and trundel. All kinds of crazy stuff can happen on that first adventure. Even the direct aid is terrifying much of the time. Often the FA with aid is a fonder memory in the long run for me than the redpoint. I put up a 3 pitch 10 on Birdseye that I missed out on the FFA and it really doesen't matter to me. The FA was amazeing even though I aided through the roof on P2. There was pleanty of free climbing mixed in with some pleasntly exciteing aid. Lots of sketchy trundels and wicked exposur. Generaly I over drill the bolts so i can pound them in and move them or eliminate them if I feel they are not perfectly placed. Mistakes do happen in the heat of the moment. I did not have to change a thing on that climb though. It came out pretty close to perfect.

I few loose flakes and such doesn't bother me, but I tend to avoid any really loose stuff.

Aiding to get bolts in scares me way more than hooking,,although i do like a good pin "to the eye!"

We did a route one time that had a bolt at the start of a bulge..didn't place another and the fall was gripping----back down to whack the 80 degree wall underneath. That only happened twice before we decided not to fall anymore

Took a pretty big whip drilling this one when a beak blew. The bosch flopping arround adds a bit to the drama;)

john strand wrote:We did a route one time that had a bolt at the start of a bulge..didn't place another and the fall was gripping----back down to whack the 80 degree wall underneath. That only happened twice before we decided not to fall anymore

You guys are certifiably nuts, in impressive ways! :)

Nick Goldsmith wrote:Took a pretty big whip drilling this one when a beak blew. The bosch flopping around adds a bit to the drama;)

I bet! Beaks are for the birds, didn't you know that? :)

Aparently Ed (too smart to lead bolt) thought I was nuts.. he suggested the name Mad Man ;)