New Yosemite Free Climbs Select Guidebook Almost Done - Call for Photos!

Props to Eric Gable for taking it beyond the keyboard.
Which guide is endorsong the BOR anchor? Lets have them come on here say they think this baloney is kosher.

What an embarrassing joke this is turning out to be.

"Let's quit the endless bickering about ethics"

That's easy, stop retrobolting.

You don't get the change the rules.

Retrobolting has always been wrong. The community is against it. But you seem to think you can do it.

There has never been a requirement that "These are public lands. Anyone who alters them in any way should have to register information detailing their route with the Yosemite Climbing Ranger team, and that information should be available to everyone." Of course you want this because you want the info in your guidebook. Guess what I have put up several climbs with a few bolts in the Valley and know of an unpublicized cliff very few people know about. I'd never tell you about it for fear of you adding bolts to the climbs I've done. I also believe there should be some unknown areas where you have to figure out how to find them and don't know the ratings. It's almost like doing an FA for anyone that finds it. But that's antithetical to your sanitize the route for the lowest common denominator methods.

The bickering over guidebooks is one topic. Sounds like there is controversy with you around that too.

But the retrobolting is much worse because you are screwing up the climbs in Yosemite and those unneeded holes with remain for thousands of years and affect thousands of climbers.

It's a shame. You have done much good. Helping people out, replacing bad bolts, creating a new guide. You could be thought of as an asset to Yosemite and respected. But this retrobolting has given you a bad reputation that will forever follow you around.

It's unreal that you don't get it. Retrobolting is wrong anywhere in the USA, but to thumb your nose at Royal Robbins, Yvon Chouinard, etc. and do it in the cathedral of clean climbing is so wrong.

Route information should be reported to the government but you should be allowed to freely retro-bolt. That is some really twisted logic, but coming from you it is understandable because it is completely self serving.

Take a cue from Ray Jardine, he had the decency to leave and find a new hobby.

Ive been living and working in the valley year round for nearly ten years now and ive known Sloan that entire time. My first impression of him was that he was a pompous narcissist. Too cool for school...He is known for recruiting brand new climbers for his big wall endeavors. Once on the wall, his attitude changes from mr. cool guy to raging asshole. Screaming and yelling at his inexperienced partners for not doing something right. A friend of mine did a FA with erik and said he is one of two guys from the valley that has the worst climbing ethics he has ever seen...i wont name the other...

Ive also seen ablegabel out and about many times at the crags. He has always been chill and on several occasions even dug through his van to give me printed out topos of his new undocumented routes. He asked me not to post them on the internet because they were waiting for the guidebook to come out. Guess what? I didnt post them. I respect ablegabel and what he does around the valley, and because they are HIS routes.

Fuck you Erik Sloan. Way to take the spirit of adventure away from Valley climbing so your pussy friends can do more routes!

Btw, for any interested parties, i can tell you erik sloan is at the wellness center in curry village every morning working on his book...

"However, his vision of bolt replacement on Yosemite wall routes differs so substantially from that of the community that the ASCA has completely withdrawn support for his work."

This, in a nutshell.

My impression is that the NPS superintendent for a park pretty much has the final say over what happens under their jurisdiction, within other rules and regs, of course. Is that not the case at Yosemite? (I do understand that the freedom to place routes is one most would not want messed with. Not advocating, just asking)

Healyje wrote:"However, his vision of bolt replacement on Yosemite wall routes differs so substantially from that of the community that the ASCA has completely withdrawn support for his work." This, in a nutshell.

Joe, are you a big ASCA supporter?

Just so everyone knows there was a cry for everyone on SUpertopo for all the members to come to Mtn Proj to slam this guy, just in case you dont recognize any of the names here.

Maybe we need to start posting pics of the anchors in Yosemite just to see how ethical the place is?

T Roper wrote:Maybe we need to start posting pics of the anchors in Yosemite just to see how ethical the place is?

Which anchors? All route anchors?

Kent Richards wrote: Which anchors? All route anchors?

how about the hundreds of anchors which have way more than three old bolts and tat all over? maybe they could be found on Supertopo...

T Roper wrote: how about the hundreds of anchors which have way more than three old bolts and tat all over? maybe they could be found on Supertopo...

Are you proposing that beefing up pre-existing anchors and removing tat are ethically equivalent to adding new mid-route anchors & bolts where no bolts previously existed?

Kent Richards wrote: Are you proposing that beefing up pre-existing anchors and removing tat are ethically equivalent to adding new mid-route anchors & bolts where no bolts previously existed?

Personally I'd probably pass those anchors and say WTF to myself and then get on with my awesome day of climbing. Crazy huh?

T Roper wrote: Personally I'd probably pass those anchors and say WTF to myself and then get on with my awesome day of climbing. Crazy huh?

A valid choice, for sure, but not relevant to the comparison of replacing existing anchors vs adding new anchors...

Kent Richards wrote: A valid choice, for sure, but not relevant to the comparison of replacing existing anchors vs adding new anchors...

No it is because Yosemite is known for (internationally) over bolted anchors all over anything long. Do the ethics change when you are 1000' off the deck?

Kent Richards wrote: ... not relevant to the comparison of replacing existing anchors vs adding new anchors in the middle of an existing route...

.

Fixed that for you.

Hi Gang,

Thanks for all the photos! I've received several awesome shots, and will be in touch with everyone who contributed soon.

As for the rest of this thread, this has not turned out to be a place where we can have a constructive conversation about fixed anchor ethics in Yosemite.

So I'm going to write a blog post on Yosemitebigwall.com to address each of the concerns that have been raised here. When that is up, proally by tomorrow night, I will take down this post. That way we can discuss things in a more constructive manner.

Best,
Erik
erik@yosemitebigwall.com

Erik Sloan wrote:As for the rest of this thread, this has not turned out to be a place where we can have a constructive conversation about fixed anchor ethics in Yosemite.

Were you trying to have a conversation about fixed anchor ethics? It seemed like all your responses ignored all the comments about retrobolting and just kept trying to steer the thread back to your guidebook.

Erik Sloan wrote:As a community we are fed up with the attitudes of Yosemite guidebook authors who believe they can control information about climbs on our public lands.

First of all, they can't control information about climbs on public lands. Anyone could find any of those cliffs, climb a route, write down beta, draw a topo, take a photo, and share it with anyone they please in person, online, or in a book. How anyone chooses to share or not share any information they have may irk you, but at least it doesn't impede anyone else's ability to go out and get the same information themselves.

You're fed up with attitudes of those who want to control things? Does retrobolting in defiance of accepted ethics and community wishes not seem to you trying to control climbs on public lands that belong to us all?

I apologize for the tangent. Let's get back to discussing guidebook photos. That's clearly what's on everyone's mind.

T Roper wrote: No it is because Yosemite is known for (internationally) over bolted anchors all over anything long. Do the ethics change when you are 1000' off the deck?

No, ethics don't change up in the air... Who's saying that they do?

Again, I don't see the parallel. Are you proposing that the replacement of existing anchors, the placement of new anchors at preexisting belays with the approval of the FAs, and the removal of tat are equally unethical as the addition of new bolts / anchors in the middle of existing routes without approval of the FAs (or more specifically, that they are equivalent in a discussion of retrobolting)?

Over-bolting and retrobolting are independent issues.

"As for the rest of this thread, this has not turned out to be a place where we can have a constructive conversation about fixed anchor ethics in Yosemite."

Sloan has shown himself unwilling to have anything even remotely resembling a conversation (that requires both spraying and listening).

Sloan's emitted a generous surplus of the former, but done precious little of the latter.

Erik, ever consider people don't wants to share with you because they're afraid you'd rape their routes?

Although...one could argue there are some folks that just like to see their own name in a guidebook regardless.

Eric