ATC / reverso in Guide Mode for Scrambling?

Hey, I wanted to throw an idea out there and see what other people thought. I don't do much climbing but end up doing a lot of scrambling. Sometimes when I practice, it would be nice to have a back up rope that if I did take a spill, it would at least arrest me from falling all the way down. I was thinking about setting up an ATC in guide mode (like a toprope belay situation) and just pulling up the "belay" slack myself when i got to safe stopping points along the route. Anyone ever try this? I can't see why it wouldn't work. I guess my other options would be tying some safety knots every couple of feet and clipping into them or using a prussik. Anyone know if there is best practice method out there (without suggesting more equipment like ascenders or and micro traction). Thanks.

Well, that would be better than nothing. If you go a long ways between resets, you will be trailing a loop of rope that may snag on things. Also, put knots in the rope once in a while so you have a backup in case the device doesn't lock up. An ascender is the the way to go when things get more challenging (sorry, I had to say it).

This will work. The main issue is that you will want to be pulling the rope through fairly frequently -- but getting stance to do this while scrambling shouldn't be a problem -- and that pulling the rope through a guide-mode device is a bit of work. (How much depends on how thick/stiff the rope is.)

If you end up doing this a lot, you may want to look into specific (top-)rope-soloing devices that auto-feed, or at least, will feed much more easily.

Is it really just "scrambling" if you want a belay or a rope? Sounds like you are ready to transition into climbing.

Thanks everyone for your nice replies. I was anticipating a flood of lectures about how unsafe this idea was. Though, frankly, about anything is better than the somewhat reckless way almost everyone practices my sport---aka zero protection whatsoever.

I tried this out today and did some practice "falls." System worked like a charm and I didn't have that much trouble pulling in the slack. I also carried two prussiks in the unlikely event that I would have to ascend the rope a short distance to get back to a place on the hillside where I could get my footing.

As David pointed out, getting good stances wasn't much of a problem either. To me, the system seems pretty good, esp. because its better than nothing---which is usually par for the course.

@Frank, yup, definitely scrambling, just with a modicum of protection. I like to move too fast to get laid up with all the gear you climbing girls and boys carry.

Thanks again for the replies everyone an safe climbing.

I think Jim Titt may have some results on this that are not so good, in terms of the device actually functioning properly in a fall situation with slack in the rope. Guide mode was never designed for high impacts.

@rgold. I get what you are saying about high loading, though the possibility of a scramble leading to a high impact loading is not great. Usually you get in trouble when the rock/ branch / whatever you are propped on lets go and you start "sliding" down the mountain on your stomach or butt. What I'm concerned about is the off-side chance that that slide turns into an uncontrolled tumble. My feeling is that the loading generated between slide and tumble is really quite low (and much much lower than even a short backward climbing fall where all the climbers weight is directed onto the rope).

Why not a top rope solo ascender/belay device style belay instead? Lots on information on top rope solo rigs on here.

I personally would only potentially use this technique in an emergency situation.

The ATC-Guide, Reverso, etc., were not designed to hold a leader fall in guide mode.

Of course, you're free to do whatever you want, but your posts read: a) like you have little to no experience in using the ATC-Guide / Reverso in whatever mode, and b) are completely speculating as to the physics and forces of a leader fall on low angle terrain.

In any case, I'd highly recommend seeking real-life, face-to-face input / advice from someone who is experienced with this technique.

It doesn't sound like he'll be taking a lead fall. I read it to be a top rop set up where he's taking up his own slack through the ATC rigged in guide mode. My biggest concern would be that he doesn't have a way to lower down if he needs to but that's the reason for the prussiks.

wouldn't a grigri eliminate the lowering issue? it also seems like it would be easier to take up slack and a better option for trying to ascend a fixed line sans jumar.
but more importantly I can't seem to get my head around the whole 'why?' part of it...

simplyput wrote:wouldn't a grigri eliminate the lowering issue? it also seems like it would be easier to take up slack and a better option for trying to ascend a fixed line sans jumar. but more importantly I can't seem to get my head around the whole 'why?' part of it...

The reason is that sometimes I try going up really steep shale scree fields just to see if it can be done and I'd prefer setting up some protection before because if the shale lets go below me, its a good slide the whole way down.

And, I figure, I could also just use a prussik instead of an ascender for a 1/100 of the price. Though that is starting to get into the realm of sketchy for me (despite the fact that normally this type of thing gets done with zero protection).

As mentioned in the original post. The whole point of the set up is to add a modicum of protection to something that is normally done with zero and not having to buy or carry any additional gear because I try to move fast and light on scrambles.

Thank you to everyone for their input.

john2.71 wrote:Consider using a Traxion. It's hands-free. It slides up the rope on its own. No fussing with ascenders, prussiks, or knots.