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First ascents / bolts

Original Post
Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

Question-

When a climb has bolts now.... Did the first ascent use bolts? Maybe this depends on the climb. How does one know from published info how they first climb was done?

Examples: Hotter Than Hell at Whithorse (tons of bolts)
Loose Lips at Whitehorse (that 10a start with the three bolts)

Eric Engberg · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2009 · Points: 0

Strandman needs to pontificate.

Alan Rubin · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2015 · Points: 10

That is quite a broad question as it really varies from climb to climb. My recollection about the 2 specific climbs that you mention--Loose Lips and Hotter than Hell--is that both were bolted on/or for the FA.

Yes, I'm sure that Strand--and many others will be along to pontificate shortly.

Alan

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
Russ Keane wrote:Question- ... How does one know from published info how they first climb was done? ...
From published info? I would think someone would have to write and publish the info, you would read it and assume they knew what they were talking about unless there was evidence to the contrary.
Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71

Like he said unless you were there, know the climber that put up the route, or have some published material of some sort there really is no way of knowing.

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625

Are you asking about FO - first onsight? The FA is the FA, but if it has been worked, bolted top down, etc. then the is a difference between FA and FO (first Onsight). Dura Dura has a FA, not a FO.
I bolt many a line, and claim FA, and give credit to FO. I can not onsight a line i have bolted if i have done anything but ground up with no falls. And i don't bolt 5.2!
HA!

Russ Keane · · Salt Lake · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 392

published info .... such as the guidebook for the area

It has first ascent basic details --- Just curious about whether the bolts existed on the first ascent or not

Greg Barnes · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Apr 2006 · Points: 2,060

Old school way - yes the bolts existed, but not in the rock - they were in a bag on the leader's harness. Then 15 minutes after getting to a stance, you finished the hole, placed the bolt, clipped it, and continued higher…

Brian Bennett on the FA of One Tolkien Over The Line, West Farthing Wall, Tuolumne, 2012.

Close-up of Brian Bennett drilling the second bolt on One Tolkien Over The Line, West Farthing Wall, Tuolumne - 2012.

Micah Klesick · · Charlotte, NC · Joined Aug 2013 · Points: 3,971
Muscrat wrote:Are you asking about FO - first onsight? The FA is the FA, but if it has been worked, bolted top down, etc. then the is a difference between FA and FO (first Onsight). Dura Dura has a FA, not a FO. I bolt many a line, and claim FA, and give credit to FO. I can not onsight a line i have bolted if i have done anything but ground up with no falls. And i don't bolt 5.2! HA!
La Dura Dura has a first FFA, quite different from a FA... The only really credited ascent is the FFA, unless it has an older history as an Aid route prior to the FFA. First onsight isn't given credit to or cared about by most climbers. Even FA is not really a credited ascent anymore in most cases.
Joy likes trad · · Southern California · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 71
Micah Klesick wrote: First onsight isn't given credit to or cared about by most climbers.
True. I have many and none are credited. I get my name in the guide after the primary FA only if I was there for the FA. Also if I was there for the FA I can't get an FO since I saw all the drill/clip stances as well as most of the moves.
frank minunni · · Las Vegas, NV · Joined May 2011 · Points: 95

First Onsight? Really? Didn't know anyone cared about that. There's so much that goes into putting up a route that an "FO" seems kind of silly. Once a route is established, knowing it's doable, especially at a certain grade, changes everything. The creativity in putting up new line is much more important that someone doing it onsite. Unless, I guess it's state of the art difficulty.

Muscrat · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2011 · Points: 3,625
Micah Klesick wrote: La Dura Dura has a first FFA, quite different from a FA... The only really credited ascent is the FFA, unless it has an older history as an Aid route prior to the FFA. First onsight isn't given credit to or cared about by most climbers. Even FA is not really a credited ascent anymore in most cases.
Good point(s.
Funny that so many are into the onsight's but it is seldom noted as an FO.
Marc801 C · · Sandy, Utah · Joined Feb 2014 · Points: 65
Greg Barnes wrote:Old school way - yes the bolts existed, but not in the rock - they were in a bag on the leader's harness. Then 15 minutes after getting to a stance, you finished the hole, placed the bolt, clipped it, and continued higher…
15 minutes if you're good and strong! My first hand-drilled bolt in granite was a 45 minute suffer-fest!
john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640
frank minunni wrote:First Onsight? Really? Didn't know anyone cared about that. There's so much that goes into putting up a route that an "FO" seems kind of silly. Once a route is established, knowing it's doable, especially at a certain grade, changes everything. The creativity in putting up new line is much more important that someone doing it onsite. Unless, I guess it's state of the art difficulty.
Well said

HTH was one of the first routes I ever did that had a bolt added after the f/a. The crux was "runout" it didn't seem so to me. we did a pretty early ascent w/o the bolt and I was climbing about 5.9 at the time.

I think Looselips always had the 3 at the start....I sure never did it any other way
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

never met anyone who gave a hoot about 1st onsight. I do feel 2nd ascent is pretty cool and i always hope that whomever does it is a not a complete heel who slags the route and downgrades it.

i can drill a 3/8ths x 3" hole in 17 min on rapell or from a bomber ledge but no effin way in that time from a sketch stance or bad hook.. I have had many lead bolt take me 45 min... Isa fell assleep on me once and i finally get the effin thing in and have to wake her up to get slack to clip ;)

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

Can't say I've ever met someone who took special pride in or credit for FO of any route (not in FA context), say .14a and below.
First Ascent and Second Ascent get mentioned, sometimes third but that's about it. There must be hundreds, if not more, of hard routes that have yet to see an FO. Getting cracking boys and girls!!

john strand · · southern colo · Joined May 2008 · Points: 1,640

Now an onsight first ascent of a hard route is to be treasured..and very rare.

I have come close twice..single fall f/a drilled on lead , of 5.12,,but one fall each.

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Simply does not happen on steep stuff..

too steep to drill free...

M Sprague · · New England · Joined Nov 2006 · Points: 5,090
Nick Goldsmith wrote:Simply does not happen on steep stuff..
It happens when someone comes along and steals your route that you just got all prepped or if you let a friend go for the à vue.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

I thought what Strand meant was lead bolting and getting the onsight at the same time. Something only a slabmeister would think of;)

the absolute Rock Star Vitaly M. said it best. "I don't often put up 5.6 first ascents but when I do I do it without weighting the gear."

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35
john strand wrote:Now an onsight first ascent of a hard route is to be treasured..and very rare. I have come close twice..single fall f/a drilled on lead , of 5.12,,but one fall each.
Agreed. Wish you had gotten at least of one those two! Badass. :)
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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