Where in the USA? Best small to medium-size climbing town

My wife and I are moving (hopefully west) soon. We live in Shawangunk Township less than 10 minutes from the West Trapps parking lot and we've loved it, but its time to go. I've looked into a LOT of the places mentioned. I've read this entire thread with great interest (actually really researched Lander last night!)


Here is my question: what percentage of your income do YOU spend on housing?



Here's why I ask - I've seen Silverthorne pushed. I have lots of friends in Dillon/Silverthorne/Farmer's Corner area and we were seriously looking for a place there. Problem: rent for a studio that looks scary is right around $1000/month. Somewhere decent with a couple bedrooms? Try $1800 - $2500. Rent is insane! Buying is typically more affordable, but we can't even come close to buying in Summit County, or really most of the other areas we are talking about in this thread. I have remote engineering work starting soon, but finding affordable housing that leaves some money in the bank at the end of the month somewhere we'd like to live... humph...

JCM wrote: So, what percentage of the posts in this thread are simply people suggesting the place that they live, even if it isn't actually that great a climbing town, or does not match the OPs specifications? Seems like greater than 50%. New Paltz is cool, no doubt, but there is essentially zero sport climbing. And Lakewood is reasonably nice as far as 'burbs go, and has very good climbing access, but in no way is it a "small to medium size town". It is a suburb in a massive metro area.

Economists call it Post Purchase Rationalization

Low cost of living is the thorn in the side of many of the climbing towns, it seems. I wouldn't cast aside Smith Rock (Bend, OR) either. Not from personal experience, but I hear from folks there is a good selection of trad climbing as well in the columnar areas. Trout Creek, I believe, is close-ish (lots cracks)? As far as destination climbing from there, however, you are probably not looking at anything great. Well, other than the fact your gym will be a destination climbing area.

Good on you though, I can't convince my wife to move to the mountains, much less to some hick town.

JCM wrote: The issue with perceived crowding in the Front Range is not the number of people, but the disconnect between expectations and reality. People living in the Frange, both natives and transplants, often have this fantasy of living in a wild-west, open space, out in the mountains environment. This is clearly incorrect; Denver is a big city in the plains, with all to pros and cons of a big city. But as far as big cities go, it is pretty nice. There are lots of parks and open space, and the mountains are nearby. The reason people who live there are often discontent is that they are comparing Denver to Ouray and Moab, not to more appropriate comparisons such as Sacramento. I moved from the Denver area to Seattle about a year and a half ago. Seattle has a similar growth trajectory to Denver, but has more geographic limitations to expansion. By any measure, Seattle is a more urban and more "crowded" place than Denver. The traffic is definitely worse in Seattle. Yet, you don't hear the constant griping about how intolerably crowded Seattle has become. I think this is because residents of Seattle realize and accept that they live in a major city, and don't cling to a fantasy that they are (or should be) living in thier own private mountain kingdom. Denver isn't overcrowded; it is just a city. That is how they are. If anything, Denver is undercrowded; it would be a better place to live if densificiation of the urban core was pursued instead of endless suburban expansion. Anyway, back to the main thread...

Seattle is a proper city and Denver Metro Area is just one giant suburbia. Hence, perceptions and bad behavior by its denizens. I always thought that perception of crowdedness was due to bad behavior of climbers at the crag. Examples are like throwing the rope at the base of the climb, while others were still on it. Or, one time we were hiking up to the base of a sport crag, and the belayer of the of the party who was already there, threw her rope bag to the base of the neighboring climb, while her climber was still climbing!

When I lived in New York and climbed in the Gunks, I never experienced such obnoxiously rude behavior no matter how crowded it was. I think people in NYC and generally North East, live and work in the close proximity of others, so they are used to share and behave courteously to each other.

Cindy wrote:JCM, you're right Lakewood is a suburb. So are Golden and Boulder.

Not that it has anything to do with the thread, but Boulder isn't a suburb. Of course longtime MP readers all know it's a terrible place, but it's a terrible place that just happens to be 30 miles or so away from an even bigger, terrible-in-a-somewhat-different-way place. As someone who has an excellent view of the rush hour traffic into and out of Boulder and Denver, trust me on this one.

MClay wrote:If you could relocate anywhere in the USA to a small to mid-sized town where would it be given following parameters? Young family - kids climb too Parents got into climbing in late-20s - but eager to train, continuously improve Sport climbing, some bouldering Wide-range of grades and styles in close proximity - 2 hours or less Destination areas possible - 7-8 hours or less 4 seasons, but no epic winters (Less important, but a perk - decent local climbing gym) Where am I moving?

Cody, WY meets all of those qualifications, with a bit of iffy on "epic" winters. There is abundant and excellent sport/bouldering/trad/multi climbing on granite, sandstone and dolomite within minutes of town. Despite its world class ice climbing, rock is climbed 12 months a year locally.

Destination areas are reasonable, Tensleep, Lander, Tetons, Winds all easy.

The real selling point for us was the great schools and overall kid friendly atmosphere and events.

For work, the internet infrastructure is probably the best in the state (FO to most places in town). Also the airport has multiple daily flights to DIA and SLC. There is low unemployment with a lot of various job openings.

pfwein wrote: Not that it has anything to do with the thread, but Boulder isn't a suburb. Of course longtime MP readers all know it's a terrible place, but it's a terrible place that just happens to be 30 miles or so away from an even bigger, terrible-in-a-somewhat-different-way place. As someone who has an excellent view of the rush hour traffic into and out of Boulder and Denver, trust me on this one.

Most days I just either go north / northwest. I-70 and 36 are to be avoided almost all hours of the day.

And Boulder is rolling in around 100k+ with another 30k+ students. The 2014 county estimate was 313,333. Lots of people packed in 26 square miles.

One question begged by the mountain town tendency, is how long is the average tenancy of these newly arrived "locals"? Such a revolving door of local-ness... Are you on the locals only tour of mountain/climbing towns, or are you going to actually live there long-term? Cuz if you're there as a step-up from extended campground stay, I'm just going to sneer back at you appropriately.

Colonel Mustard wrote:One question begged by the mountain town tendency, is how long is the average tenancy of these newly arrived "locals"? Such a revolving door of local-ness... Are you on the locals only tour of mountain/climbing towns, or are you going to actually live there long-term? Cuz if you're there as a step-up from extended campground stay, I'm just going to sneer back at you appropriately.

I'd say in Ouray, it's 3 years max. Less if you are in your 20s and single.

Whenever I hear people talking up Summit County I never understand how they don't realize there is greener grass just a bit further west.

Carbondale, GWS, New Castle, Edwards / Avon. The list goes on these places are much nicer than anything in Slummit County

doligo wrote: I think people in NYC and generally North East, live and work in the close proximity of others, so they are used to share and behave courteously to each other.

Agree, people in the North East are known widely for their courtesy and lack of obnoxious behavior.

Colonel Mustard wrote:One question begged by the mountain town tendency, is how long is the average tenancy of these newly arrived "locals"? Such a revolving door of local-ness... Are you on the locals only tour of mountain/climbing towns, or are you going to actually live there long-term? Cuz if you're there as a step-up from extended campground stay, I'm just going to sneer back at you appropriately.

Hanging out in telluride last summer a local told me that the turnover & in/out is so high they don't even consider you a local till about 10 years.

JCM wrote:Anyway, this is a fun thing to think about, and I imagine most climbers have thought through this. If I were in your shoes, here are some places I'd consider, organized by category: Small towns (limited employment, most don't have a climbing gym, somewhat limited culture, awesome climbing access): Bishop, CA: Amazing bouldering and alpine rock climbing, pretty good sport climbing too. Good skiing. Very small and remote town. Major climbing hub. Awesome, dramatic landscape. Summers are very hot in town, but you can get up into the mountains to climb. Lander, WY: Best small town in the US for sport climbing (IMO). Hope you like pocketed limestone. Bouldering scene is blowing up too; lots of granite and gneiss boulders. Surprisingly year-round rock season; winters are cold, but there are some solar-oven effects that let you climb in Sinks in the winter. Small town, very remote. Carbondale and Glenwood Springs, CO: I would live here, given the mobility to go anywhere in the US. Sport climbing access is superb, with Rifle being the big draw, but there are dozens of lesser known local crags too. This is a place to go if you want to get strong (i.e. Rifle). Some good bouldering in the area. The Black, the Creek, and Moab towers are nearby if you want to go trad climbing. Climbing season is surprisingly year-round despite winter snow; there are some good south-facing sport crags for the winter. Great climbing community. Very progressive feel, for a small town environment. Fayetteville, WV: You come here for the New River Gorge. Cool little outdoors community in the middle of backwoods Appalachia. The weather is a serious struggle there; stay far away if 300 days of sun per year are important to you. Truckee, CA: Awesome little mountain town. Great for skiing (if/when the drought ends). Tons of bouldering, lots of trad climbs, and some sport climbing; not a sport climbing hub, but maybe adequate. Pleasant climate, if you like both sun and snow. Expensive. Moab, UT: More a place you would move to if you were into trad/crack climbing. Sport climbing is more limited. Beautiful place, but a bit of a tourist zone. Estes Park, CO: Great for bouldering and trad climbing. Some sport climbing, but more limited. Great mountain town, but a bit touristy. Cold and windy winters. Canon City, CO: Great sport climbing access, but local culture is limited... Ouray, CO: Tiny town in the mountains, many local crags being developed. You'd probably need to get in to ice climbing. Various NH small towns: Quant small towns in New England. Great culture. Good place for raising kids. Pretty good climbing options, especially if you position yourself near Rumney and/or North Conway. Cold winters, humid summers, lots of precip, lots of bugs. Squamish, BC. Yes, it is in Canada, so there is that to consider. Fantastic climbing town, with massive amounts of climbing of all sorts very very nearby (i.e. walk to from your house). Very scenic. Winters are long and very rainy, but not too cold. Great skiing nearby to get through the winter. Biking and boating are great too. Fantastic outdoors community.

JMC, um no that would be dis lexis or life on Lipitor sorry . .
JCM,
wrote the following and it nails it by region.

Anyway, this is a fun thing to think about, and I imagine most climbers have thought through this. If I were in your shoes, here are some places I'd consider, organized by category:

Small towns (limited employment, most don't have a climbing gym, somewhat limited culture, awesome climbing access):

Bishop, CA: Amazing bouldering and alpine rock climbing, pretty good sport climbing too. Good skiing. Very small and remote town.

Major climbing hub. Awesome, dramatic landscape.
Summers are very hot in town, but you can get up into the mountains to climb.

Lander, WY: Best small town in the US for sport climbing (IMO). Hope you like pocketed limestone. Bouldering scene is blowing up too;
lots of granite and gneiss boulders. Surprisingly year-round rock season; winters are cold, but there are some solar-oven effects that let you climb in Sinks in the winter.
Small town, very remote. yikes that's an understatement !

Carbondale and Glenwood Springs, CO: I would live here, given the mobility to go anywhere in the US. Sport climbing access is superb, with Rifle being the big draw, but there are dozens of lesser known local crags too.
This is a place to go if you want to get strong (i.e. Rifle). Some good bouldering in the area. The Black, the Creek, and Moab towers are nearby if you want to go trad climbing. Climbing season is surprisingly year-round despite winter snow; there are some good south-facing sport crags for the winter. Great climbing community. Very progressive feel, for a small town environment.

Fayetteville, WV: You come here for the New River Gorge. Cool little outdoors community in the middle of backwoods Appalachia. The weather is a serious struggle there; stay far away if 300 days of sun per year are important to you.

Truckee, CA: Awesome little mountain town. Great for skiing (if/when the drought ends). Tons of bouldering, lots of trad climbs, and some sport climbing; not a sport climbing hub, but maybe adequate. Pleasant climate, if you like both sun and snow. Expensive.

Moab, UT: More a place you would move to if you were into trad/crack climbing. Sport climbing is more limited. Beautiful place, but a bit of a tourist zone.

Estes Park, CO: Great for bouldering and trad climbing. Some sport climbing, but more limited. Great mountain town, but a bit touristy. Cold and windy winters. Canon City, CO: Great sport climbing access, but local culture is limited...

Ouray, CO: Tiny town in the mountains, many local crags being developed. You'd probably need to get in to ice climbing.

Various NH small towns: Quant small towns in New England. Great culture. Good place for raising kids. Pretty good climbing options, especially if you position yourself near Rumney and/or North Conway. Cold winters, humid summers, lots of precip, lots of bugs.

Squamish, BC. Yes, it is in Canada, so there is that to consider. Fantastic climbing town, with massive amounts of climbing of all sorts very very nearby (i.e. walk to from your house). Very scenic.
Winters are long and very rainy, but not too cold. Great skiing nearby to get through the winter. Biking and boating are great too. Fantastic outdoors community.

This was the last post on the first page. It very close to the list that my wife and I talked about after I read her. The Page 3 posts. An hour ago while I cooked dinner.

Only a few towns are missing
but they are included, in the regions mentioned .
My wife was curious about raising kids and good schools??

Weschester County, NY,
Armonk? Briar Cliff Manor.

so I will add the state of

Maryland.. . . . . . . . . .climbing.about.com/od/wheretoc...
Check the Carder Rock / Great Falls page NOT The Oldest Climbing area in this country, but that is what is claimed.????.

Or (God forbid). New Jersey! northern only Alpine?? Bergan County?
Look at what you could live on top of !!?
Or Morris, or Essex, county
but NJ is not cool. . .high taxes, conservative small towns. . .
In the highest density metro area other than LA, cal? .?

Ha ha ha yes Reno but the children ? Think of the children!

Reno, NV is often overlooked. It is not small, but a medium sized town, about 450k people in Reno/Sparks and the surrounding valleys/meadows. 30 min. from Truckee/Donner, 45 min from Tahoe, a lifetime of climbs already but it doesn't stop there. 1 1/2 hours from Lover's leap, only 3 1/2 hours to Bishop, and the additional lifetime of climbing in that area (for easy sport climbing, Owens River Gorge is pretty awesome). Even then, we are only 5 hours from Yosemite and all she holds. I love it here, there is no traffic, you can get anywhere in 15 min, but still have the amenities of a big city, and an international airport. To that point, only an hour or so flight, or 8 hour drive to Red Rocks in Vegas. The schools are good, and the city has really cleaned up in the last 10 years. There is a huge amount of misconception when it comes to Reno. It is not like Vegas at all, much more like Bend, OR, or Spokane, WA in regards to weather and setting (although downtown does have a small amount of casino vibe, that is a very little part of what is actually Reno.)

Check out laketahoebouldering.com/guide/ for guide books containing thousands of (world class) boulder problems within 15min - 2 hour drive from Reno.

There is also the great Big Chief sport climbing area only 25-30 min. drive from Reno, has plenty of easier and moderate stuff on volcanic rock that is different than the granite so common to the general area. Although, the granite is so great! Good after work spot on those longer days for us Reno locals. Also great day-trip cragging for a sat/sun.

Besides checking MP for the "Reno - Carson City" area in the Nevada page, also check out "Tahoe Vicinity" and "I-80 corridor" in the California page, 80%-90% of those areas are within 2-3 hour drive of Reno as well. The west edge of Reno is only approx. 6 miles from the CA border.

Reno is a great place for winter activities as well, typically the valley floor stays clear of the brunt of the snow, when there is snow the city is pretty good at clearing the roads (I have gone many winters in small cars with no real problems) while their is excellent skiing, snowboarding, snowshoeing, and sledding/tubing 30 min - 1hr. from town.

I love it here, and highly recommend the area. Lot's of new tech jobs coming to town as well. Come check it out, I don't think you will be disappointed.

To add to my above post, Reno also has no fleas (due to our elevation), and the dry air is great (the hot is not so hot, the cold is not so cold), and is beneficial to anyone with asthma.

Michael Schneider wrote:Lander, WY: Best small town in the US for sport climbing (IMO). Hope you like pocketed limestone. Bouldering scene is blowing up too; lots of granite and gneiss boulders. Surprisingly year-round rock season; winters are cold, but there are some solar-oven effects that let you climb in Sinks in the winter. Small town, very remote. yikes that's an understatement !

If I was in the OP's position, I think Lander would be my location of choice.

Anyway, returning to the OP's original query. It sounds like he is pretty OK with, or even prefers, something along the lines of podunk country living. A lot of the time, when climbers are looking for places to live, they are playing a game of trying to find places that are close to climbing without being too redneck. If remote and redneck are OK, that changes the list somewhat.

So here is a revised list of the top 3 towns I would consider, if the criteria are small-town country living, inexpensive, lots of sport climbing, and a reasonably tolerable climate:

Lander, WY
New Castle, CO (Similar upsides to Carbondale, but smaller/quieter and less expensive. Very close to a substantial amount of good limestone.)
Fayetteville, WV

Central Oregon also deserves revisting, based on the OP's stated criteria. Bend is probably a bit too spendy/trendy/Bendy for his preferences, but there are plenty of other smaller towns that are even closer to the climbing. Maybe just move to Terrebonne.

Also consider:
Anywhere in SW Colorado
Various options in SE TN, in the general region of Chattanooga
Various options in Kentucky, close to the Red
Black Hills (various towns in and around the Black Hills)
Small towns around Rumney
Cody, WY
Buffalo, WY
Bishop, CA (wierdly expensive for how remote it is)
Los Alamos, NM
Somewhere in Idaho? It seems like there is quite a bit of under-the-radar climbing in the SE portion of the state (in addition to the known stuff like City of Rocks)

For somewhat larger towns that are still not excessively urban, consider:
-Saint George, UT
-Grand Junction, CO
-Flagstaff, AZ
-Durango, CO
-Bozeman, MT (Cold winters! But a cool town, and a growing array of sport climbing options)
-Logan, UT

Anyone have any input on the expansive area between the Arkansas Valley (Leadville to Salida) on the west end and CO Pueblo to South Denver on the east???

Places like Cotopaxi, Florrisant, Guffey, Hartsel, Bailey, Woodland Park, Deckers, etc

Looks like amazing access to biking, hiking, climbing, river running, etc etc. Lots of different elevations to choose from too. I guess I wouldn't be too surprised if this area is all hickville

Mammoth Lakes, Bishop and the whole Eastern Sierra has to be one of the most gorgeous regions in all of the U.S. and the climbing scene there is really vibrant. Lifetimes of sport, trad, alpine and bouldering is nearby and Yosemite is a 2-4 hour drive away. Hard to beat that.

Chris Schmidt wrote:Anyone have any input on the expansive area between the Arkansas Valley (Leadville to Salida) on the west end and CO Pueblo to South Denver on the east??? Places like Cotopaxi, Florrisant, Guffey, Hartsel, Bailey, Woodland Park, Deckers, etc Looks like amazing access to biking, hiking, climbing, river running, etc etc. Lots of different elevations to choose from too. I guess I wouldn't be too surprised if this area is all hickville

I think Buena Vista has lots of little local crags in the area. In the shadow of impressive Sawatch Range, if you're into bagging 14ers.