Bolting tips. Pictures update..and more pics......free solo pictures update

Yeego Yi'naa wrote:"Take a crow bar up on top of the cliff and see if it moves at all or not". This will probably be unpopular, but I cringe at the thought of the advice above. Why create unnecessary risk? There are plenty potential routes to either side of the roof. 10 x 8 is small enough to avoid.

what do you mean by "create unnecessary risk"? The point of determining if it is stable or not is to remove unnecessary risk. Think about if the roof is unstable and you leave it there. By bolting routes near that possibly detached block you will be bringing people to the area where they will likely hang out right below that block whether there are routes on it or not. By either not checking the block or not trundeling it is possibly putting people right below a dangerous block that could cut loose at any time.

kennoyce wrote: It would be really hard to know just by photos. It does look scary, but it may be totally solid. Take a crow bar up on top of the cliff and see if it moves at all or not.

I thing I do that. Tomorrow but I'm been onest it looks scary movie...

Walter Galli wrote: I thing I do that. Tomorrow but I'm been onest it looks scary movie...

Huh?

FrankPS wrote: Huh?

May you need to read the all thing... About that? Bro'

Walter Galli wrote: May you need to read the all thing... About that? Bro'

Scary movie is a funny movie, you ever heard of?

kennoyce wrote: what do you mean by "create unnecessary risk"? The point of determining if it is stable or not is to remove unnecessary risk. Think about if the roof is unstable and you leave it there. By bolting routes near that possibly detached block you will be bringing people to the area where they will likely hang out right below that block whether there are routes on it or not. By either not checking the block or not trundeling it is possibly putting people right below a dangerous block that could cut loose at any time.

Its probably best not to put up routes near the questionable roof. I'm sure there plenty of potential routes nearby. The roof has been there all this time, and you would risk defacing the rock or injuring yourself just to see if it's solid? People will and should make their own judgement if they want to hang out below that roof. Sometimes, trundling and cleaning routes is just an unnecessary luxury.

before doing any trundling, it may be wise to talk to the land owner about it, that is, if you aren't the owner. Same thing goes for bolting routes on their land.

I wouldn't necessarily talk to the owner and possibly stir up unnecessary concerns. Use your judgement: Who owns it and who are the other users of the area? Is it in an area where others besides a few climbers would even notice if it was removed? Is it cool for you to be there and putting up routes in the first place? If it is an at least semi remote spot without another user group who would be startled by the change, I would personally discretely go up there with a big bar and test it out. Be aware though that once you do, if you end up loosening it more, you have to finish the job.

If you haven't trundled big rocks before, obviously just be really careful, take your time and be very methodical making sure your ropes is up out of the way, your bar can't be rolled or levered against you or sling attached to it can't catch you. Of course triple check to make sure nobody could possibly be hit by it or debris. The forces can be huge and blow big pieces for quite a distance. Once when I dropped a car size chunk from 1 pitch up it blasted a coffin sized piece sideways more than 100 feet, cleanly cutting through a 10" tree on the way. Another time a big flake completely wiped out a big beech tree at the base. I was bummed, but the flake had to go, being very loose and directly above a very popular climbing spot and trail (It was in New England, so the forest returned to normal very quickly) Better to have a little temporary destruction than have people killed later.

M Sprague wrote:If it is an at least semi remote spot without another user group who would be startled by the change, I would personally discretely go up there...

You can get away with that in a lot of places; not sure it's the way to go on a really small island.

Healyje wrote: You can get away with that in a lot of places; not sure it's the way to go on a small island.

Of course, you have to use good judgement. If it was actually private land I wouldn't bolt or even be there without permission. Publicly owned and managed land is another matter and I would consider the manager's intended purpose of the area, ie. is it a specific nature or scenic sanctuary or more general use recreational/open space. For instance, in NH National Forest ("Land of many uses") I am not going to contact the Forest Service every time I need to trundle a loose rock and open up a possible bureaucratic nightmare of fifteen studies over 5 years to see if it might crush a blade of grass and what ramifications that may cause, but if I know an area is an Audubon Sanctuary frequented by birders and other naturalists I wouldn't climb there at all (unless I snuck in and did a little discrete LNT bouldering;))

Ok no problems for the land owners and other stuff, is a hill where nobody goes, is a secluded area, today I I'll check the top of the roof and see how it looks. Let you know guys thanks for the tips,,

If using glue ins and you dont want to replace your expansion bolt anchors use AC 100+ Gold epoxy. In your temps there it will be ready to climb on in approx 60-90 min. Simply install your glue in bolts, go have lunch and come back!

EB wrote:If using glue ins and you dont want to replace your expansion bolt anchors use AC 100+ Gold epoxy. In your temps there it will be ready to climb on in approx 60-90 min. Simply install your glue in bolts, go have lunch and come back!

If it sets up too quickly you won't have time to work and get a nice neat job and you'll end up using a lot of nozzles. We use RedHead A7 at Rumney mostly
toolbarn.com/redhead-a78.ht… It also has a pretty quick cure time, grey color and pretty good consistency. At 80 deg F it has a working time of 5.5 min and a cure time of 30 min, though I like to leave it longer before I let anybody else get on it.
cure times
However, that resin sold on the Titan Bolt site looks really good. I would like to try some to see how it is to work with.

Note- If you go with the Redhead A7, the 8 oz tubes are best, IMO. Make sure you get the correct gun for that size (Be sure to put Locktight on the disc on the plunger part of the tool that goes into the tube. It is easy to have it fall off and get lost) Also, pick up extra mixing nozzles no matter which brand you use.

Yeego Yi'naa wrote: Its probably best not to put up routes near the questionable roof. I'm sure there plenty of potential routes nearby. The roof has been there all this time, and you would risk defacing the rock or injuring yourself just to see if it's solid? People will and should make their own judgement if they want to hang out below that roof. Sometimes, trundling and cleaning routes is just an unnecessary luxury.

The thing is, even if you don't put a route up through there yourself, if it is a cool feature somebody is likely going to want to climb on it later. It is better to clear it out now while first developing the cliff, few people are around to be disturbed and moan and you have not attracted people to hang out below or built trails underneath. It is an unfortunate fact that many who don't actually work putting up routes and actually see how easy a lot of rock comes ripping off don't have the experience to make good judgement calls on where to hang out.

Yeego Yi'naa wrote: Its probably best not to put up routes near the questionable roof. I'm sure there plenty of potential routes nearby. The roof has been there all this time, and you would risk defacing the rock or injuring yourself just to see if it's solid? People will and should make their own judgement if they want to hang out below that roof. Sometimes, trundling and cleaning routes is just an unnecessary luxury.

It's very obvious that you have no experience with route development based on your replies, so it might be best to leave the threads that are talking about route development to people who might actually have some experience with the topic.

kennoyce wrote: It would be really hard to know just by photos. It does look scary, but it may be totally solid. Take a crow bar up on top of the cliff and see if it moves at all or not.

I'd do the same. You'll want a biggish crow-bar, of course.

And, if it goes... shout "yeeha" as it falls. Trundling big stuff is half the fun of developing a new cliff!

Also be aware that sea cliff rock like that can be somewhat unpredictable relative to what stays and what goes during a trundle so you will want to be in a harness and tied-in back to something solid away from the edge. Don't just try to crowbar it off while standing there.

Healyje wrote:Also be aware that sea cliff rock like that can be somewhat unpredictable relative to what stays and what goes during a trundle so you will want to be in a harness and tied-in back to something solid away from the edge. Don't just try to crowbar it off while standing there.

I usually just solo up with my 6 foot bar and get a good handjam behind while I pry it off. No Fing around with a rope that might get chopped. Got to have quick reflexes though to jump on and ride it down and step off just before it hits.

Kennoyce
Sprague

I come from a perspective of LNT and minimal impact. I see the world differently; I just don't understand nor appreciate over development. No need for insults or assumptions. I don't see the need to cause destruction for personal gratification. I certainly don't think the public or climbers are in danger by leaving the roof alone. I'd rappel the roof first to thoroughly check and assess, without the crow bar. If it's loose, I'd leave it alone. Reminds me of a scout leader knocking over a hoodoo in Utah "for the sake of others".

That roof does look questionable, but it's impossible to say more without seeing it. My advice would be to avoid putting routes around it if possible and dont install bolts in or below it. If you pry on it, make sure you pull up the ends of the rope when rapping over it. If it comes loose and snags the tail of your rope on the way down, that's going to suck big time.