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Will future big names all come from competitive gym climbing?

CCChanceR Ronemus · · Bozeman, MT · Joined Aug 2012 · Points: 130

A lot of alpinists aren't gym grown. Haley, House, Anderson, Twight. Don't think those guys grew up pulling plastic? Seems like the PNW guys start out more as mountaineers and move to more technical stuff.

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90
Tom Sherman wrote: I'm using verbiage wrong. The ice was good enough for your tools, but my glacier crampons couldn't get purchase without fracturing. So I ended up making mixed moves with my feet, basically stemming on almost bare rock. Might have just been a case of having the wrong gear for the job. I remember a lot of verglas, but there must have been some ice because my leader got a stubby or 13 in at some point. EDIT: or I just can't remember IDK, all the mp photos look fat
Hmm... I don't ever remember Hobbit being thin, brittle as hell, yes, but not thin. Maybe you were on Pegasus rock finish, now that's a freaking awesome climb!
Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374
Pnelson wrote: Nobody deserves to have their style or ability denigrated. Unless they have first denigrated others' styles or abilities. Which is exactly what NWsteve did.
"He started it!" Uh, huh. Heard that one a few times. : )

Hey, and you just typed my typo again! N E(!) Steve can now feel free to zing us both for typing abilities!

Too bad he's chosen to shout!!!! And be abrasive!!! I've seen this on his other posts, too. Many fine threads on here are composed of grand, long running arguments. Maybe he'll get over it and be fun, eventually. Reading the thread full of come back stories helps put those tick numbers in perspective, as well as some of the invective. We just don't know what crap people are facing offline, and these are all real people with normal, fucked lives.

Pnelson, I'll owe you a beer/coffee if we ever meet.
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
divnamite wrote: Hmm... I don't ever remember Hobbit being thin, brittle as hell, yes, but not thin. Maybe you were on Pegasus rock finish, now that's a freaking awesome climb!

The Hobbit's been thin or mixed for the last two years I've done it.

Haggis and Cold Toast was hard for the grade last year, easier two years ago. You gotta stem and use the chimney to rest. The drytooling is easy and the victory lap at the top is sweet!
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

Yeah it's probably a mix of not remembering and being a 2nd year climber when I did it. I've never been on Pegasus's RF. I've ran hobbits several times to the Pegasus RF belay and then bailed. But the one time I finished hobbits, I remember being scared, gripped, and crampon scraping rock.

I followed this kid (Andrew??) strong climber, works at IME. I forget how I linked up with him, maybe the day my buddy Girard's crampon broke on Smear. And now I'm wondering if that was all the same day we had that big ice collapse on Chia that nearly killed us all. Maybe if he's on here he can chime in, glad I keep a climbing journal now to keep these thoughts all together.

Now I'm curious, I know the chia collapse has cool pictures on neclimbs, I wonder if I can piece it all together, with emails and dates...

divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90
Bill Kirby wrote: The Hobbit's been thin or mixed for the last two years I've done it. Haggis and Cold Toast was hard for the grade last year, easier two years ago. You gotta stem and use the chimney to rest. The drytooling is easy and the victory lap at the top is sweet!
Now I'm curious, which part of the Hobbit being thin? It still has two bolts belay on a ledge. From the belay, goes left for Pegasus Rock Finish, and right for Hobbit? You then traverse into massive ice column/flow with an overhang/bulge, stem right and make a move or two onto the top? Do people climb without that ice flow?

I climbed Haggis a long time ago, and remember stemming on rock, but didn't feel it was that strenuous.
Tom Sherman · · Austin, TX · Joined Feb 2013 · Points: 433

I just looked up 3/10/13 is when I climbed Hobbits. I'm sure it was thin being that late in the year.

I ended up following this guy from North Conway after my leaders crampons had broken earlier in the day. Also we went to warn a group of kids TR'ing Chia that we had heard some serious creaking and groaning earlier that day. Not 30 seconds after we warned them, this happened:



Ahhh, what a nice Thursday walk down memory lane!
Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480
divnamite wrote: Now I'm curious, which part of the Hobbit being thin? It still has two bolts belay on a ledge. From the belay, goes left for Pegasus Rock Finish, and right for Hobbit? You then traverse into massive ice column/flow with an overhang/bulge, stem right and make a move or two onto the top? Do people climb without that ice flow? I climbed Haggis a long time ago, and remember stemming on rock, but didn't feel it was that strenuous.
Yes, I climb it in one pitch (maybe I'm thinking of a different route) I thought Hobbit is the gully to the right of Pegasus. You can climb the first pitch of Pegasus RF to get to the bottom or hike around to the bottom to start. The last 20 feet or so was thin or bare the last couple times.

Haggis in "normal" conditions is snow covering most of the drytooling to low angle WI to 50-60 feet of vertical WI that's beat out ending with a victory lap of low angle WI, the last moves being over a tree and popping out a slot.

Haggis last year was no snow so mandatory drytooling that's not hard but if your ice gear never sees rock could be sketch on lead. The crux of vertical ice that's beat out was a column half the size of the chimney that formed an overhanging crux that gave you screaming barflys.

Haggis is usually a fun cruise on a very interested and varied climb. Last year I thought more than once I wonder if these screws will hold me.
Magpie79 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Nov 2011 · Points: 0
Mark E Dixon wrote:BITD, when I started, there was only trad climbing. (Trad) Climbers were generally regarded as socially incompetent misfits, or worse. NE Steve is simply carrying on this time honored tradition. Don't let the gym climbers take it away from us!
You are way too friendly to be a socially incompetent misfit! ;)
Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
Magpie79 wrote: You are way too friendly to be a socially incompetent misfit! ;)
Not according to Eli and Greg D :-)

Nice of you to say so, though.
divnamite · · New York, NY · Joined Aug 2007 · Points: 90
Tom Sherman wrote:I just looked up 3/10/13 is when I climbed Hobbits. I'm sure it was thin being that late in the year. I ended up following this guy from North Conway after my leaders crampons had broken earlier in the day. Also we went to warn a group of kids TR'ing Chia that we had heard some serious creaking and groaning earlier that day. Not 30 seconds after we warned them, this happened: Ahhh, what a nice Thursday walk down memory lane!
Wow, that ice looks aerated to hell and detached.

Bill Kirby wrote:Yes, I climb it in one pitch (maybe I'm thinking of a different route) I thought Hobbit is the gully to the right of Pegasus. You can climb the first pitch of Pegasus RF to get to the bottom or hike around to the bottom to start. The last 20 feet or so was thin or bare the last couple times.
Yes, that's the same route. I used to do that route all the time and run laps whenever nearby routes are crowded.

Maybe I'll get back to the Dacks if I get the chance.
Old lady H · · Boise, ID · Joined Aug 2015 · Points: 1,374
Mark E Dixon wrote:BITD, when I started, there was only trad climbing. (Trad) Climbers were generally regarded as socially incompetent misfits, or worse. NE Steve is simply carrying on this time honored tradition. Don't let the gym climbers take it away from us!
Oh, man! Now what am I supposed to do? I ride my bike to the gym to climb after work, especially in the cold/dark/hot extremes, hoping to eventually be not totally sucked as a climber, but my hope-to-get-there-before-i-run-out-of-time ambition is to grab some trad, hike out back country somewhere, eyeball some hunk of rock with no name, let alone routes, and start climbing! Now what do I do!! Who am I??!!
eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525
Mark E Dixon wrote: Not according to Eli and Greg D :-) Nice of you to say so, though.
I never said you were unfriendly, just that you could come across as an asshole sometimes. And compared to Greg D, you're super nice, because he's a huge asshole. The good kind of asshole, though.
However, after reading your comment, I can now start playing bingo
3 to go
Le gion · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 15

Ignoring the previous off-topic page and a half, I think a simpler way to take this is...

Which world-class rock/wall/alpine climbers under 40yo were never involved in competitive gym climbing? Based on this thread (ie, unconfirmed) it looks like the list includes...

Colin Haley
Hayden Kennedy
Didier Berthod
Nico Favresse
Sean V
Mason Earle
Tom Randall
Pete Whittaker
Kate Rutherford
Madeline Sorkin
Alex Megos

The point of this thread was to validate whether these days it's the former competitive gym climbers who are doing leading edge climbs in other disciplines. The above list seems to indicate... maybe not quite yet.

Tim Stich · · Colorado Springs, Colorado · Joined Jan 2001 · Points: 1,520

Every day, I ask myself, "Who are the current big names in climbing?"

But since I don't read the mags, I can't answer the question.

I also like to walk on the beach, pick up a shell and ask myself, "What was this clam's maiden name?"

Matt Roberts · · Columbus, OH · Joined Mar 2010 · Points: 85

Sorry, Pete Whittaker was very well known on the comp circuit in the UK. Tom Randall's first climbing experience was an indoor comp, though it was late enough (late teens) that he was realistically too old for the comp circuit.

I would say that this thread is really a reflection of the age of starting climbing...most of those named (and to add a few others...Katie Brown, Angie Payne) started climbing at relatively young ages, and relatively far away from climbing areas. Gyms have made climbing accessible to a much larger proportion of the population, such as DiGiulian, of Virginia, or Payne and Brown of (roughly) Cincinnati, at much younger ages.

The flip side of this, though, is someone like Caldwell (who is similar to Whittaker in this) that started climbing outdoors first, with a very talented parent, and then participated in the competition scene before moving back outdoors.

My point in all of this is that...I don't really have a point. Things evolve; they change. Too fast for some, not fast enough for others.

Climb on.

Mark E Dixon · · Possunt, nec posse videntur · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 974
eli poss wrote: I never said you were unfriendly, just that you could come across as an asshole sometimes. And compared to Greg D, you're super nice, because he's a huge asshole. The good kind of asshole, though.
I joined Condescendors Anonymous after you called me out in the other thread. If you find me backsliding, feel free to let my sponsor know! Seriously- I don't like condescending people, especially if it's me.

As for Greg D, I'll take your word for it. I usually give him the benefit of the doubt in the technical trad discussions, as I don't think I'm qualified to really analyze those threads. But with respect to difficult (or even middling) sport climbing, he seems to opine well beyond his actual experience. With pretty much a closed mind. Makes me doubt his overall credibility.
He is humorous sometimes, which is a strong point in his favor for me.
Highlander · · Ouray, CO · Joined Apr 2008 · Points: 256

Megos is a gym rat and does compete. I also think Hayden Kennedy was competitive climber in middle/high school.

Legion wrote:Ignoring the previous off-topic page and a half, I think a simpler way to take this is... Which world-class rock/wall/alpine climbers under 40yo were never involved in competitive gym climbing? Based on this thread (ie, unconfirmed) it looks like the list includes... Colin Haley Hayden Kennedy Didier Berthod Nico Favresse Sean V Mason Earle Tom Randall Pete Whittaker Kate Rutherford Madeline Sorkin Alex Megos The point of this thread was to validate whether these days it's the former competitive gym climbers who are doing leading edge climbs in other disciplines. The above list seems to indicate... maybe not quite yet.
Scott E. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 20

Does Alex Megos still compete? I know he did. As a youth competitor he was German champion, European champion, and second in the World Championships. But that is all past tense. I was not aware that he still competed.

Kent Richards · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 81
Legion wrote:So it seems being a competitive gym climber is almost a prerequisite these days to make it as a professional climber, even if your interest is in trad, big wall, alpine, even mountaineering to a certain extent. Maybe the competitive climbing circuit is evolving into a farm system where future major league stars will come from. True?
Based on these assumptions, I'd say that it's likely that more professional climbers will "come from gyms", because of the numbers.

1) Climbing hard requires technique and strength (or, so I've heard).
2) Due to the population density near gyms, they provide climbing and training opportunities to more people than crags do.
3) Due to the synthetic -- and therefore customizable -- nature of gyms, they provide more-bang-for-your-buck training opportunities than crags do.

The phrase "farm system" suggests that the intent / purpose of the competitive gym climb circuit is to produce major league stars.

I think you're conflating two independent factors. Whether or not farming professional climbers is truly the intent / purpose of the competitive gym climbing circuit, it's still more likely that new pro climbers will have started and / or trained in gyms.

Legion wrote:The point of this thread was to validate whether these days it's the former competitive gym climbers who are doing leading edge climbs in other disciplines. The above list seems to indicate... maybe not quite yet.
If that was the point of the thread, then your OP asked some misdirected questions.

A problem is the use of absolutes, like asking "will ... all come from", implying that all the leading edge climbers are former gym climbers, etc.

Yeah, I'd agree it's likely that the competitive gym climbing circuit fosters more pro climbers.

Will all future pro climbers come from the competitive gym climbing circuit?
From a philosophical standpoint, I'd say maybe many will, but some might not.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

General Climbing
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