Black Velvet Road Conditions?

Rico Tan wrote: Another big man with fake handle hiding behind a computer, slinging mud at a stranger without any facts

So exactly which portion of my timeline don't you agree with. Seems pretty spot on to me. Again, classic deflection of the real issues here.

It's pretty easy to sling mud. Next time you're climbing, dig down into that trail you're hiking in on and grab some wet dirt. Ball it up in your hand and sling some mud.

Rico Tan wrote: Your chart says 18th 3-6 pm at 0.01 inch, from you met me on the side of the road on the 19th at sometime after 1pm. 9 hours? Again ,it doesn't reflect the condition I saw .

http://www.wrh.noaa.gov/mesowest/getobext.php?wfo=vef&sid=RRKN2&num=168&raw=0&dbn=m

Way to cherry pick the data point. You failed to mention the 1.25" of rain that just previous to that. Red Rock wash was flowing like a river into the detention basin, which still has water in it as of this afternoon. That' a once every few year event.

I have a hard time believing the storm miraculously missed Oak Creek canyon based upon your astute observations.

P.S. Well put Manderson!

Well that derailed quickly, even by MP standards.

Anybody want to tell me 'bout that road? And whether I should pony up for a bit more clearance in the rental car?

Just drove it an hour ago, it's a lil rougher then usual but there were 2w drive cars(Taurus) that made it no prob.

Bryan Manning wrote:Just drove it an hour ago, it's a lil rougher then usual but there were 2w drive cars(Taurus) that made it no prob.

thank you

This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

Drove it yesterday (10/20) in a Toyota Corolla, it was fine. A little rough and some puddles but no show-stopper sections. Have fun!

Rico Tan wrote:This post violated Rule #1. It has been removed by Mountain Project.

Rico - dude, share your thoughts, but don't be mean and they won't get deleted. Dialogue is important.

Patrick Vernon wrote:Drove it yesterday (10/20) in a Toyota Corolla, it was fine. A little rough and some puddles but no show-stopper sections. Have fun!

Thanks Patrick!

Mean ? A couple curse words in a post doesn't make it more "mean" than a bunch of people condemning the action of a stranger that they never met before or know personally, on a public forum , with misinformation and half truth you learned from another stranger online. That's mean. I don't feel sorry for anything and don't feel like I have done anything wrong after all these. What you did to me were way worse than any imaginable(which is zero in this case) damage than I could have done to the rock.

Rico Tan wrote:Mean ? A couple curse words in a post doesn't make it more "mean" than a bunch of people condemning the action of a stranger that they never met before or know personally, on a public forum , with misinformation and half truth you learned from another stranger online. That's mean. I don't feel sorry for anything and don't feel like I have done anything wrong after all these. What you did to me were way worse than any imaginable(which is zero in this case) damage than I could have done to the rock.

Rico. I didn't get a chance to see your last post that got deleted, I just assumed it was bad because the admin deleted it.

We can tell you are upset, because you feel guilty. Taking the trad rack out when you did, based on the amount of moisture in the rock, was wrong. Were you the only one out there? Unfortunately, you were not. However, you just happened to get caught and shamed a bit. If you didn't live there, you'd probably get more of a pass. Locals should know better. You know better. Just be honest and stop lashing out at people who are just calling it what it is.

The more I explain, the more people like to attack me. People are very one sided with their assumptions. People are also very quick to jump in and start condemning another person. Especially with all the internet experts with the "condition report" without actually being out there to touch the rock. If I say I didn't climb on wet rock that day , too bad the people who were rapping down that route that same day will not be here to stand up for me, with the rabidity displayed on MP forum. I didn't get "caught" , and I wasn't being sneaky about it standing on the side of the highway either. I already explained to Weston L on the spot (while being my way too polite self as usual) that I was reluctant to be there , that I'd rather wait one more day but my friend from out of town really wants to go and I finally agreed to go check out the condition before we do anything. The SS gully had water/puddles in the usual spots like last dry winter day when I rapped down it after finishing another route, but rock was dry . You can argue there's moisture in the rock that I couldn't feel with my hands but to me the rock is as dry as any dry rock in the sun . To me also it's a class 4 drainage been trampled on by most as a rappel/decent route . I have not ever been intentionally climbing on wet rock and I defend myself to the death. Despite the more I explain ,the more people attack me here. I feel like I apologized for nothing just to appease the crowd/internet bullies/ignorant anonymous strangers/weird handle names... Climbing friends who know me for the longest time know I'm always the one who insisted on waiting at least 2 days before climbing, after it rained. I'm a local and I shouldn't be there , I ended up there but don't think I've done anything wrong . The more I explain, the more people jump in to attack me without knowing the real condition. I'm not owning to "it" if I think I have done nothing wrong. The whole "picture" is not as Weston L painted and as he most likely assumed . This is my last post on this thread. I know the next wave of flakes/accusations/personal attack/misinterpretation/"cherry picking " of what I said is on the way.

My vote is to leave Rico alone.
I don't know him or anyone else involved in this.
He got the message, whether or not he even needed to hear it.

Also, I'm a frequent visitor to Red Rock. I love the place. I also respect the wet rock thing and equally love climbing at J-Tree so it's a no brainer for me and my partners to just head over there if it rains. So while I respect the wet rock thing and hold myself and my partners accountable for abiding by the 'rules' I still feel a little pissed every time someone gets on their high horse and starts ranting about who they saw or how many people were climbing and look at those PUDDLES!!!

Fucking relax. Yep, it sucks if a hold breaks. Yep it's avoidable. Nope you're not going to change everyone and the most you can do is politely inform and walk away. After that just let it go. Otherwise you're going to drive yourself crazy.

and me

sarcasm wrote:My vote is to leave Rico alone. I don't know him or anyone else involved in this. He got the message, whether or not he even needed to hear it. Also, I'm a frequent visitor to Red Rock. I love the place. I also respect the wet rock thing and equally love climbing at J-Tree so it's a no brainer for me and my partners to just head over there if it rains. So while I respect the wet rock thing and hold myself and my partners accountable for abiding by the 'rules' I still feel a little pissed every time someone gets on their high horse and starts ranting about who they saw or how many people were climbing and look at those PUDDLES!!! Fucking relax. Yep, it sucks if a hold breaks. Yep it's avoidable. Nope you're not going to change everyone and the most you can do is politely inform and walk away. After that just let it go. Otherwise you're going to drive yourself crazy. and me

Agreed. I've been following this thread and it seems like a real dogpile. Like they want Rico to say "Uncle" and will continue flogging him until he falls on his sword.

FrankPS wrote: Agreed. I've been following this thread and it seems like a real dogpile. Like they want Rico to say "Uncle" and will continue flogging him until he falls on his sword.

I'd imagine nobody would have even said anything, if he had not made this comment:

Rico Tan wrote: It's so sad that people just don't care despite all the info online.

on this thread:

How wet is it?

Adam Burch wrote: I'd imagine nobody would have even said anything, if he had not made this comment: on this thread: How wet is it?

This^^^. Based on the timing of the two posts I figured both threads were a tandem troll effort.

gription wrote: This^^^. Based on the timing of the two posts I figured both threads were a tandem troll effort.

Not sure about the troll thing, looked more like someone tsk-tsking and then getting called out for hypocrisy.