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What routes in Eldo would get more traffic with one more bolt?

mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120

Some good discussion here, but ditto Healyje.

Same old debate of bringing a route down to one's mediocre "modern" standards rather than becoming a better climber to climb at a higher level.

The attitude of the age of entitlement.

There is enough for everyone. Plenty to go clip clip, plenty to go scare yourself with runouts. Please keep it that way.

David Harrison 1 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0

The real starter to the question was not if a route should be retro bolted or that the addition of a bolt was going to happen or anything about ruining the experience. Eldo is a great place and has many funky placements, fantastic footholds, wacky handholds, and great adventures that would definitely be changed by the addition of a bolt.

The question stems from the traffic on some of the best routes in the canyon.

Every guidebook and even the mountain project page mentions Metamorphosis as an absolute Eldo Classic but I have never seen a person on it. From the description and photos on this site it does look like classic Eldo complete with a bit of spice and some hidden or tricky placements (as it should be).

But, if it didn't have the 30' fall potential then would you climb it more? If it is that classic then would you climb it a few times a year instead of once every so often?

For me, I have climbed Lower Ruper multiple times and I really like topping out instead of dropping down to the rappels. Once I climbed the upper grand giraffe (5.6 with a bit of R) and although it too had cool huecos and holds and moves you would never find anywhere else but eldo I have skipped the experience every time since. I am proud of the adventure but would do it every time and maybe even prefer it with one or two more placements.

This post is about traffic on the best moves at eldo. Some guidebooks I have often say "this route should be climbed more" and that is sort of what I am headed for. THANKS!

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
David Harrison 1 wrote:Some guidebooks I have often say "this route should be climbed more" and that is sort of what I am headed for. THANKS!
By that the guidebook authors mean more people should up their game to take advantage of those routes; not that they should be dumbed down for said traffic. That a route has a low traffic metric most likely means it has a high value metric.

Again, upping your game is the answer.

P.S. And don't sweat the 30 footers on Metamorphosis - back in the mid-70s my partner, as was his nature, went over the roof instead of around it and ended up benighted on the headwall taking a 100 footer without a scratch as there was no way to down climb and the wall above was essentially blank.
WadeM · · Auburn, Ca · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 481

Healy - Did he deck from there? That's pretty close to the ground. Hope all is well and you're getting out. Haven't been back to Columbia Gorge since you showed me around

David Harrison 1 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0

OK, I have lots of experience with forums of all kinds and I expected a few conversations about the true nature of a climb from this post. I am not interested in dumbing something down or changing a route. Yes, up your game to make the moves. But, the question is.....

What route would YOU do more often if it was a tad less spicy?

What routes should be climbed more at Eldo but due to their lack of coverage in a guidebook, position, or some other reason just don't get the traffic?

Moritz B. · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2013 · Points: 185
David Harrison 1 wrote: Yes, up your game to make the moves.
Up your game to make the moves with the given protection!
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
WadeM wrote:Healy - Did he deck from there? That's pretty close to the ground. Hope all is well and you're getting out. Haven't been back to Columbia Gorge since you showed me around
Nope, it's a clean fall so he missed the ledge at the bottom and, with rope stretch (goldline), fell quite below the top of the ramp on the left. Scratched his thumb as the rope stretch brought him back up to the level of the ledge, though.

Been slammed at work, but still getting out when possible, about to be shut down by the weather soon, though. Where are you now?

David Harrison 1 wrote:What route would YOU do more often if it was a tad less spicy?
I'd say the question ought to be: what are YOU willing to do to climb routes that are a tad more spicy?
mountainhick · · Black Hawk, CO · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 120
David Harrison 1 wrote:Once I climbed the upper grand giraffe (5.6 with a bit of R) and although it too had cool huecos and holds and moves you would never find anywhere else but eldo I have skipped the experience every time since. I am proud of the adventure but would do it every time and maybe even prefer it with one or two more placements.
LOL! Yeah, let's bolt all those scary 5.6 runouts in Eldo so you feel brave enough to climb them!

Krikey, leave Eldo alone. Obviously not the place for you to challenge yourself. Go clip bolts in bocan or clear creek.
Bapgar 1 · · Out of the Loop · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 90
David Harrison 1 wrote: But, the question is..... What route would YOU do more often if it was a tad less spicy?
I think that a lot of folks would agree that this question misses the entire point. What makes climbing in Eldo so rewarding are all of the things that make Eldo, Eldo; including the spice.
Mathias · · Loveland, CO · Joined Jun 2014 · Points: 306
David Harrison 1 wrote:OK, I have lots of experience with forums of all kinds and I expected a few conversations about the true nature of a climb from this post. I am not interested in dumbing something down or changing a route. Yes, up your game to make the moves. But, the question is..... What route would YOU do more often if it was a tad less spicy? What routes should be climbed more at Eldo but due to their lack of coverage in a guidebook, position, or some other reason just don't get the traffic?
Supermacy Crag would probably get more action with bolts. Seems a lot of people who wouldn't highball something like that also wouldn't toprope it because toproping isn't cool enough. I toproped some of those routes though and I quite enjoyed them, mostly because it's different rock. Would be easier to do them all if it were bolted though, so it'd get more traffic.
Eli Buzzell · · noco · Joined Nov 2010 · Points: 5,507
Healyje wrote: Maybe more what's needed is a first 'National Cam-less Weekend' to lend some real insight into those old classics which are often taken for granted these days.
I could totally go for that!
reboot · · . · Joined Jul 2006 · Points: 125
Brent Apgar wrote:What makes climbing in Eldo so rewarding are all of the things that make Eldo, Eldo; including the spice.
I think that speaks volume to the dearth of well protected, high quality gear routes around Boulder than anything though, lol. I bet nobody is gonna say "I wish (Wunsch's dihedral, Astroman, Rostrum, etc, etc) is more spicy so the experience will be more rewarding". For most of people, it's either an acquired taste or they just don't know any better.
Tombo · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 410

X-M, but then it wouldn't really be X-M me thinks.

ABB · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2007 · Points: 0
David Harrison 1 wrote:...it came to me that five or ten well-placed bolts would increase the traffic on some moderate routes to the point where overcrowding on favorites (and well protected) romps could be avoided.
Interesting but circular and flawed logic. Too many crowded routes >> disperse crowds onto more routes >> make more routes safer to entice crowds = more crowded routes = Square One.

David Harrison 1 wrote:Every guidebook and even the mountain project page mentions Metamorphosis as an absolute Eldo Classic but I have never seen a person on it...But, if it didn't have the 30' fall potential then would you climb it more?
No, I wouldn't. Vapid without a hint of spice.

David Harrison 1 wrote:This post is about traffic on the best moves at eldo.
The best moves are inextricably linked to a much greater experience...and often less traffic and its impact. Get ya' some!
Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5
David Harrison 1 wrote:OK, I have lots of experience with forums of all kinds and I expected a few conversations about the true nature of a climb from this post. I am not interested in dumbing something down or changing a route. Yes, up your game to make the moves. But, the question is..... What route would YOU do more often if it was a tad less spicy? What routes should be climbed more at Eldo but due to their lack of coverage in a guidebook, position, or some other reason just don't get the traffic?
It might not be as much an issue of those who have responded not understanding your question, but that they disagree with your basic premise. I'm not sure any routes should be climbed more, I think every climber should climb whatever routes they want to - and having a variety of options in difficulty, protection, popularity, sun/shade, style, length, etc... means that there is a route for every climber and every mood. You seem to be implying that more traffic = better, (as in your example - you say you would repeat your Grand Giraffe experience more often if bolts were added - and you would prefer it that way - implying that would be better) It seems most here disagree, and like Eldo as is - occasional runouts and all.
rob.calm · · Loveland, CO · Joined May 2002 · Points: 630

So "spice" is now the new euphemism for "dangerous".

Rob.calm

Em Cos · · Boulder, CO · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 5

I think it's a euphemism for added interest/excitement. Whether a particular runout or route is exciting or scary is probably pretty subjective.

Ben Walburn · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2007 · Points: 680

After climbing for a number of years, and 2 decades in Eldo, I would think that a lot of people would agree that each climbing area is different and should be managed accordingly. For example, the ethics at the Gunks aren't going to fly for BoCan. That being said, some of the best days I've ever had climbing, the most memorable, the days that the beer tasted it's best were the days that I committed to trying something that pushed my comfort level in terms of relative safety. There are some climbs that I have .."always wanted to do" but hesitated. Every once in a while, on a good day with low gravity I tick one of those off. The rewards from doing so are immeasurable and treasured amongst life's greatest moments.
I can see arguments to be made for a very select few climbs in the canyon like "Sidewall" because there is already a bolt there... immediately following the crux. In short, if certain elements of a climb prevent you from climbing it, that's between you, your psyche and the rock.

I hope you go out one day, lead the climb that makes you hesitate and understand where the fault in your position is. The beer will taste great ..I promise.

David Harrison 1 · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2015 · Points: 0

OK! Climbed in New Hampshire this weekend at Cathedral and Whitehorse. Great granite. Back in Colorado tomorrow. Thanks for all of the comments.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Colorado
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