Should I retired these carabiners?

Hi all,

I just bought some used BD hotwire carabiners to set up as my alpine draws, but noticed some easily seen groove at the bottom end ( runner, webbing end ) of the biners. It does not feel sharp to the finger but can be easily seen and feel.
I do own a set of sports draw that I usually climb on but they are not yet worn like these.

My questions are, Am i just being paranoid? should i retired and use these as utility biners? my only concern is that if it will wear out dyneema sling much faster and maybe even cut through it when fall. Should I try sand it down?

thanks ahead!

groove

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It would be helpful to post a photo showing the profile of the carabiner, which would show the depth of the groove. Can you post a side view, closeup, of the grooved area?

yes, couldn't quite see the groove mark from the side profile unless tilting it.

Many of my biners are way more grooved than that and I climb on them every day.

I'd probably be okay with them but iff you're going to worry about it, shitcan them. Biners are pretty cheap. It's worth it just for the peace of mind.

I think you're good brother but use your best judgement. I guess it couldn't hurt to sand it over a bit.

Look fine to me, you can't hang / fall on a quickdraw 1 time without doing that much damage to it. I don't see people retiring them every single time they take a fall.

Key thing I would say is make sure to always hook the same side into the bolt so that there is no chance of an edge cutting your rope. I still use bolt side on some of my draws to extend trad gear but I only rack draws that are smooth on the bolt side and have never taken a fall. So as long as you don't feel a sharp edge even if there is a little bit of damage they are fine.

Those have a lot of life left. A lot.

Dangerous. Send them to me and I'll dispose of them for you!

I can't see any actual NOTCHES. All I see is very gentle rope grooves. That's totally fine. The thing you need to watch out for are sharp notches that have been cut into the carabiner by sharp bolt hangers. If there are none of those, odds are you're absolutely fine.

i think that is from the pull test that BD does to tensile test them

Those are less used than my "new" ones, so in other words, they are basically unused. Still, "micro-fractures" lol. Funny thing, whoever did use that carabiner was using it wrong. I would bet that the person who sold you that bootied it off a flipped bail biner, or they were very stupid. Are they all like that? Were they all used backwards?

Thank you all for the answers! I will keep climbing hard on them and use my best judgement.

Alll the biners came with these grooves, some less significant. The previous owner stated that he used these for alpine draws. What I don't quite understand is that the rope end looks fine, but almost all the runner end seems to have these tiny grooves.

I can take those from your for proper disposal for a small fee.

Short answer: you're fine

Long answer:
those may actually test stronger than ungrooved biners. BD did a test on grooved cold shuts and many of them actually tested stronger than un-grooved because they kept the load on the strongest part of the cold shuts.

Those grooves could help direct the load to the spine of the biner, which is the strongest part, and therefore could make the biner test stronger. Additionally, those grooves may help keep the sling properly aligned, preventing cross-loading, so I would not recommend sanding it down.

Actually that looks like the shape from the original forging, not a groove from rope wear. (Of course I'm looking at a photo on the interwebs, so it's difficult to be sure)

They're fine, the annodized finish hasn't even worn. But as ZSJ suggested, if you don't trust 'em... Perhaps you'd be better suited to buy new next time and spare yourself the ambibuity of the history. The savings on used biners is nominal.

Bolts don't create grooves, that happens from rope wear. The scarring from bolts is called bolt bite and does little to effect lifespan of biners. I use them interchangebly on alpine draws, my quick draws are more purposed.

Inspect your gear regularly. Your climbing partners will let you know when it's time to retire something!!

eli poss wrote:Short answer: you're fine Long answer: those may actually test stronger than ungrooved biners. BD did a test on grooved cold shuts and many of them actually tested stronger than un-grooved because they kept the load on the strongest part of the cold shuts. Those grooves could help direct the load to the spine of the biner, which is the strongest part, and therefore could make the biner test stronger. Additionally, those grooves may help keep the sling properly aligned, preventing cross-loading, so I would not recommend sanding it down.

Nah. Those tests are only relevant to open, "drop-in" style hooks. Not gated carabiners. Also, the grooves here aren't remotely deep enough to trap the rope next to the carabiner's spine, so again, that test isn't relevant to this scenario.

Jon H wrote: Nah. Those tests are only relevant to open, "drop-in" style hooks. Not gated carabiners.

Do you have evidence to back that claim up or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

those are nothing. my caribiners have a lot more wear on them and I've been climbing on them on a weekly basis

eli poss wrote: Do you have evidence to back that claim up or are you just pulling it out of your ass?

I should ask you the same question... Did you even read the study? It's right here: blackdiamondequipment.com/e…

The tested anchors are non-gated. When they fail, they don't break, they just roll open (i.e. straighten) until the rope falls out. Carabiners are a closed loop. The gate captures the nose, thereby inhibiting deformation of the carabiner. That's why there is such a dramatic decrease in open gate strength. When carabiners are pulled to failure with a closed gate, they actually snap from material failure - they can't straighten.

Further, the tested cold shut's basket is "flat" whereas a carabiner's basket is sloped downwards so the rope is ALWAYS captured right next to the spine. With a cold shut, the rope is able to slide forward, away from the spine, cantilevering the force on the cold shut basket. Which of course, doesn't happen with carabiners. So your above claim is nonsense on this count too.

Speaking of "talking out of your ass..."

You should delete your post above - it's pretty much wrong from start to finish.