New Alpinism

climbing coastie,

Definitely digest the book before just trying to adapt the sample routines; it's a phenomenal guide to training, and the knowledge it can impart will serve you well in adapting your own training.

I'd say that the whole general strength training program is one that you can adapt to your own situation. The outline offers suggestions for progression, and those progressions have proved pretty effective in my case. As for your Z1 and Z2 starting point, I'd figure backward from the total weekly volume in Week 15 of base period training and see what your schedule will tolerate. Start from that. Then, if you repeat the same program again, you can modify according to your needs-- for example, the most I can do in a week is 533 minutes. The first time through, I started at 185 minutes. The second time through, I started at 220 minutes. Each time, though, I built toward a max of 533 minutes.

I did just build a ladder for general strength training. Didn't use one in my first round. So glad I've got one for this second round-- the thing is incredible at building upper body power. 2 10-foot landscaping timbers, 2 2x4s, 6 4' lengths of galvanized 3/4 diam. pipe, a drill, a spade bit, a couple of screws, and some webbing. Took about 30 minutes to assemble and set up, and I'm mechanically challenged. I highly recommend doing this.

Jonny d wrote:climbing coastie, Definitely digest the book before just trying to adapt the sample routines; it's a phenomenal guide to training, and the knowledge it can impart will serve you well in adapting your own training. I'd say that the whole general strength training program is one that you can adapt to your own situation. The outline offers suggestions for progression, and those progressions have proved pretty effective in my case. As for your Z1 and Z2 starting point, I'd figure backward from the total weekly volume in Week 15 of base period training and see what your schedule will tolerate. Start from that. Then, if you repeat the same program again, you can modify according to your needs-- for example, the most I can do in a week is 533 minutes. The first time through, I started at 185 minutes. The second time through, I started at 220 minutes. Each time, though, I built toward a max of 533 minutes. I did just build a ladder for general strength training. Didn't use one in my first round. So glad I've got one for this second round-- the thing is incredible at building upper body power. 2 10-foot landscaping timbers, 2 2x4s, 6 4' lengths of galvanized 3/4 diam. pipe, a drill, a spade bit, a couple of screws, and some webbing. Took about 30 minutes to assemble and set up, and I'm mechanically challenged. I highly recommend doing this.

Jonny: how did you attach the pipes to the timbers? The pipe ladder in the book looks as if he used flanges. Those dang flanges can end up being more expensive than the pipe itself (two per pipe).

Tom,
Glad to share. I bought two 10X4X4 treated wood landscaping timbers at the lumberyard along with 6 3' lengths of galvanized 3/4 inch (interior diameter) steel pipe. I laid the timbers side-by-side and, starting from the place I wanted my top-most rung, marked off every eight inches across both timbers and then marked the middle of the line on each timber. I also did the same thing eight inches from the bottom of both timbers. Then I grabbed a 1" spade bit and drilled a hole at the marked point to the depth of the bit (about halfway through each timber. I set one timber with the holes facing up, set a pipe-length in each hole (5 on the top and 1 on the bottom), and used a hand-sledge to seat them to depth. My daughter and I then positioned the second timber, holes-down, on the open ends of the pipes and set the open pipe-ends into the holes. We then used the sledge to beat the timber down onto the pipe-ends to depth. After that, we cut a 2X4 into 4 pieces, each the width of the ladder, and screwed the end of each 2x4 piece into the sides of the timbers at the top and bottom. I then had a buddy come over. He and I wedged the bottom of the ladder against a tree, and, using a protractor and a level, got the timber positioned at a 10 degree overhang and tied both sides of it at the top to the tree using webbing/water knots. Works like a charm. Started with single leaps (no skips) and then progressed. Am skipping two rungs now. With only five rungs at the top (the lower pipe just keeps outward tension on the bottom), skipping three rungs (32") will be the most possible. If you're really into it, you might consider using 6 pipe lengths overall to make a 40 inch leap possible. Ladder runs and car pushes now make up our Monday max strength session. I'll try to take a pic of the ladder for you and post it below on this thread. All-in cost was about $100.

Hey all. This thread just caught my attention and though I could possibly add info if anyone has questions.

I picked up the book a couple years back when it was released. Bought it from Scott Johnston during an AAC function in Oregon. I read it a couple times cover to cover and was amazed at the depth of information. The problem I ran into which I think some other comments in this thread begin to hint at, is that it kind of opens up as many questions as it provides answers.

The underlying premise of the book, which is that alpine climbing requires training in a way that climbers typically do not take seriously. The chief take away being that going climbing a bunch or simply "exercising" with dead hangs, running or what have you is not the same as training. Training speaks more to a plan including periodization, modulation and observation of the body's response to the work. Read more in the intro chapter if you want to learn more about the difference. Suffice it to say that I've spent pretty much my whole life exercising and only since last March have ever trained for something. I'm now a believer.

I fiddled around with cobbling together a training plan for myself and also caught Steve House's clinic during the Ouray Ice Fest last year. The problem I ran into was that I had information overload and didn't really get too far due to just being overwhelmed with too much information. Then, one day I was just dicking around on Training Peaks and almost accidentally inquired about coaching from one of their coaches. I just wanted to know what the cost looked like. To my surprise, they immediately connected me with Scott Johnston, who is now my coach. I won't lie, the cost is significant and I am not sure I can recommend this path for the average person. However, it may definitely be worth it to hire a coach for a season just to help you learn how to train more effectively. I had to pick a goal to make the program make sense which ended up being the Kautz Glacier route on Rainier.

Using what I knew from the book but allowing Scott to dictate my daily training load proved to be EXTREMELY effective. I learned a lot of little things from Scott's work with me that I didn't really glean from the book. One major one was the over complication and unnecessary emphasis on heart rate training zones. In short, we didn't use HR zones at all in my training. Far more effective was focus on aerobic threshold. My base period focused mostly on variations of AeT workouts (either below on recovery workouts, at AeT or above depending not the purpose of the workout). This is such a simple thing to track and so much less fussy than messing around with zone based training. As the program progressed into building Muscular Endurance and more specificity the early focus on building a strong aerobic base became more and more apparent.

I found that I recovered more quickly from hard workouts, was less prone to minor injuries that plagued me constantly when I mostly worried about training for trail or road running races and made some pretty huge gains in terms of strength as well. In short, I'm far more durable and fit than I've ever been (even compared the time I spent in the army in my 20s). The real kicker is that Scott's most common advice was not to train harder but rather to train smarter. If I was the least bit under the weather, Scott would yank my off of training. If my legs were still tight from a tough gym session, my AeT run would turn to a recovery run instead. The result was that I really learned the importance of rest and letting my body adapt to the training rather than just push, push push all the time.

When it came time for Rainier, I was still a little nervous. I felt good but was facing days with 60lb pack weights (reality turned out to be more like 50lbs). The entire climb felt extremely easy. Since I had been doing ME workouts with very heavy loads and had the aerobic base to support low intensity, long duration stuff like Rainier. I didn't even go to bed sore or especially tired. I credit this entirely to the training I did leading up to it. I'm sure I could have just done some hiking with a heavy pack before the climb and still been fine. However, cruising the whole thing like it was just another training day would never have happened for me otherwise.

I'm only a year into seriously training for climbing but the dramatic difference it's made for me has really opened my eyes. At 42, I'm now reappraising what I thought were reasonable goals for my climbing career based on this experience and new found knowledge. I may or may not continue with coaching just for financial reasons but if you have the cash, I highly suggest combining the info in that book with coaching (preferably from someone who actually climbs and understands very well the specific demands of alpine climbing).

That's a pretty glowing endorsement so let me throw out some unfortunate downsides:

1. Money. I mentioned it before but it's got to be a consideration. It ain't cheap. Still, I think it may be useful for most anyone who has a decent job to pony up for it a for a few months to go through one training cycle and then move forward after armed with the new knowledge.

2. I began to miss climbing. The thing about this training is that the bulk of it isn't climbing. It's running, hiking, gym workouts. I was at it for about 6 days a week. Since rest days are so critically important, you really do need to just rest on those precious few days. This left little room for climbing, or skiing. That said, it is possible to work some of that into your training. I did some days of alpine scrambles with varying packs, ski touring here and there etc. Still, I missed climbing.

3. Social life. Ever trained for a marathon or something? Yeah... your friends may forget your name.

4. Weird looks. I'm just some middle aged dude. Do I really rate a coach? People give you weird looks. It's a little bit fancy, if you know what I mean? FWIW Scott actually says that most of his clients are people like that.

Nick K wrote:On the subject of Aerobic Threshold adaptations, the one thing I don't remember seeing in TFTNA is time guidelines for how much volume you need per week to see adaptations. In running circles it seems that the ideal for adaptation is sessions that last 60-90 minutes, totaling 6-7 hours/week minimum, combined with a high fat diet. That's a summary of info gleaned from Maffetone, Noakes, and some articles in Ultrarunning mag. I'm curious to know how people are adapting right now, and what their aerobic training volume is. I'm running 4-6 hours/week, but mostly in 30-45 minute sessions (I run to work 4 days a week, and walk the fifth), but I'm definitely noticing improvement in the speed I can maintain while breathing comfortably.

Right now, my volume is 10, or more, hours a week. I'm improving steadily every week. I'm doing a hill climb race this month, some technical CO 14er routes later this summer, a Grand Canyon ultra in Oct. (50 miles, and 11,000 feet gained), and a 24 hour effort on New Years.

Tom,

Does this 10 hr/weekly volume include core, strength, or ME focused training? Given some of your upcoming goals, I can see training built around lots of low intensity workouts, but you also mentioned some technical routes. I'm curious about how much training you're directing to that end.

Hope you have fun in all those adventures.

Alex,
I'm a desk jockey with a family. My overall volume is at about 8-9 hours/week. Most of that is aerobic training (vs strength). I'm in my second cycle of training this way, right now. Unbeknownst to me, my time years ago in the infantry was building a really solid aerobic base, so I've adapted to this regimen much more readily than a couple of my buddies who don't have that kind of background. I think we all notice that life's a lot easier out in the mountains as a result of this training.

jaredj wrote: I agree with you and Twight about the year-on-year gains. But something that they don't come out and say explicitly in the book but was hit upon up-thread is that for year-on-year gains to be made, increases in volume year-on-year are necessary. For many, this comes at a shock. A max of 8-9 hrs this year? Doable. Doing more like 10-12 next year? Sheesh, gonna be tough. 15 the year after that?! It's merely the opposite side of the "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch" coin. Mountain Athlete is a gym run by a guy who has a background in strength training who is marketing training plans that he designs for outdoor athletes based on his views. I have purchased a couple. His plans are a blend of classical strength exercises, 'work capacity' workouts, and moderately high - intensity (think Zone 3 + 4 mostly) endurance workouts. This contrasts with Crossfit, which tends to be 'work capacity' focused primarily (as is my understanding - I've never spent time at a Crossfit gym). I think of Crossfit at one end of a continuum (all high - intensity, all the time), and New Alpinism (low to moderate intensity but lots of it) at another. Mountain Athlete tries to strike a balance. I think it's a pretty good approach for the busy person with lots of commitments (job, kids, etc) for whom this is a hobby, and can only realistically devote 5-6 hrs / week to training on a regular basis. My contention is that if you can't scale up to at least 10-12 hrs for a few weeks, then the gains made from a New Alpinism - style approach are gonna be pretty limited. Put more bluntly, if you've only got 5 hrs / week to work with on average, those 5-6 are probably better spent doing high intensity stuff. You just have to accept that if you can't push the volume, you've got very little chance of making those big year-on-year gains the book talks about. Instead what you'll be able to do is get in pretty good shape for awhile, but that fitness is shorter-lived.

My program is a good balance between Crossfit and New Alpinism. I tweaked a combo of the two to fit my busy life and I've seen great benefits....especially hitting strength training hard prior to pushing more speed on long duration runs. Strength training seems to be vastly overlooked in a lot of endurance regimines. Endurance relies on strength way more than strength relies on endurance.

Frank F wrote:Tom, Does this 10 hr/weekly volume include core, strength, or ME focused training? Given some of your upcoming goals, I can see training built around lots of low intensity workouts, but you also mentioned some technical routes. I'm curious about how much training you're directing to that end. Hope you have fun in all those adventures.

The ten hours was just my aerobic workout time. I do at least two strength training workouts a week.
That might sound like a lot of time, but having good trails (mostly defunct logging roads) right out the front door is convenient. It also helps that I have a really good workout setup in my yard. I use my gym membership when the weather is poor.

Has anybody used the Skierg from Concept 2 or their rower for part of your endurance training? Most of my zone training has been running and hiking but with the winter just around the corner it won't be safe to run at night in my area, so looking for a home system.

Video for reference concept2.com/skierg/trainin…

I have used the Concept 2 (Rower) for a long time now (10-12 years). It is one of the best overall conditioning tools out there - no impact - uses lots of muscles - easy to track progress with the computer on it and heart rate (accessory) - and has a different stress from the general running, stepper etc often used so it gives those muscle a break from the direct wear and tear. And it's nearly bulletproof - mine has many many many meters on it with nothing ever done except general maintenance. And it has had surprisingly good carryover for hiking and carrying a pack. I have not used (or seen) the ski setup except in pictures and videos.

Jake Laba wrote:Has anybody used the Skierg from Concept 2 or their rower for part of your endurance training? Most of my zone training has been running and hiking but with the winter just around the corner it won't be safe to run at night in my area, so looking for a home system. Video for reference concept2.com/skierg/trainin…

I don't have your problem with cold weather, but I travel often in places where it's unsafe to run outside for personal safety reasons. In those situations, I've found step-ups, as described in the book, to be a fine exercise. I listen to podcasts to overcome the boredom, and the the passes quite nicely. Just be sure to vary the step heights to avoid overuse at particular knee angles.

I've used a c2 skierg. Thought it was a pretty shitty device. Tried it several times to try to see the utility, but I just thought it was bad. Their rowers are awesome though.

Entering week 3 of the program and even though it's less cardio than I did before I'm seeing slight improvements!

Looking ahead in the Transition Period I noticed that it goes from "general strength sessions" in Weeks 1-5 to "Functional Strength sessions" in Weeks 6-8. I can't find where it talks about the difference between the two in the book. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

I think it is just a typo that they used two different names for the same thing. I think I or someone else asked one of the authors and thats what they said

Thanks Jon! That's what I wondered.

So for a novice, what is more important? Running or steep hiking? I can run a 5k in 30 minutes and for hiking, my max effort rate of ascent is 2,000 ft/hr (sustainable for 30 minutes). Should I devote more time to stair climbing and hiking, or running on pavement to get my aerobic base up?

James,
My takeaway from New Alpinism is to work on your aerobic capacity in the way you can put weight-bearing stress on your body best. I used to be able to do a 12 minute 2-miler, but my heart rate for that was always in high Zone 3/Zone 4; my 2-miler is now 16 minutes, but it's all in Zone 1. Give up the timer and adopt a heart-rate monitor instead. And then just train Zones 1 & 2 a couple of times a week using periodization over a number of weeks.

James,
Nothing beats specifity. You need to replicate your climbing goals to your training. I can personally attest that I'm a lousy runner. Fortunately, You don't run up a mountain. Hiking up steep terrain with a heavy pack is the best aerobic training you can do.