Winter alpine and ice climbing layers

Gearing up for the season and looks like I could use some upgrades.

First things first: base layers.
I've been keen on light weight merino base layers for mountain activities for years but the more I climb, or belay rather, the more I wish I had a thicker pair. Do you like to rock the heavy weight base layers or make up for it in another layer?

Pants:
I've yet to find a good combo of warm, light and waterproof. What works well for you? Isulated? Soft or hard shell? Sell me.

Down:
I have an older montbell ultralight down jacket that's lost its loft. Just not worth bringing anymore. I'd like something less than a pound, durable enough for the occasion rock scuff and warm enough for a subzero belay with r1 and shell. Been eyeballing the mountain hardwear ghost whisperer (probably not warm enough) and the montbell mirage. Opinions on those? Better options?

Thanks a bunch for the advice.

Patagonia Capilene 4 is nice as a thicker base layer, but warmth is better made up elsewhere. I prefer super light super wicking base layers. The Craft Active Extreme is really nice, though the top sometimes rides up a little bit. The cycling world crushes the backpacking/climbing world here.

I don't have a specific recommendation on pants. It's all personal preference. I have worn everything from slim fitting super light stuff like the Arc' Gamma Rock and OR Allout to heavy weight stuff like the Patagonia Northwall. My only recommendation is don't spend a lot of money on something you will kick holes into. Seek out something with a slim fit around the ankles or have something tailored after you buy it.

I own the Ghost Whisperer and the Mirage. Neither is durable. The Ghost Whisperer is not warm enough for below zero. The Mirage is, kind of. The Arc' Atom AR is a nice, pretty durable synthetic option. The Montbell Permafrost is supposedly nice. The new Arc' Nuclei AR looks really nice and expensive. The Mountain Equipment K7 and Gasherbrum look really nice and expensive as a really really warm option for below zero. Last year when it was below zero I put a Mirage over an Arc' Atom AR. I decided last year that I was done with being cold on belay.

I don't wear insulated pants. Stuff to check out would be Mammut Nordwand, Arcteryx Alpha Comp and the OR Iceline pants. If you want something heaver, check out the OR trailblazers.

As for down layers, the Ghost whisperer is sweet, but light. I hardly wear down, so I would recommend the Arcteryx atom, Patagonia nanoair or the OR super layer. If your set on down, Arcteryx makes great heavier mid layers, and I just checked out a great new mid layer from Rab that I can't remember the name of.

I LOVE LOVE LOVE R1 pants! with a good soft shell pant on top is all you need most of the time. If its real cold i'll use Patagonia Northwall pants and coat ( R3 lined softshell ) its the best. I like to keep the top thin and have overly huge belay coat ( DAS Parka one size too big )

Where are you? My recommendations are based on climbing in the PNW where it isn't super cold but it is damp a lot.

Capilene 4 Hoody is my choice for a heavier next-to-skin layer. It's very breathable, and just right for me for working hard in subfreezing temps. It also works pretty well for me for alpine rock climbing in the 40s-50s (F) - putting on and taking off a windshirt or shell layers gives a wide range. R1 is too heavy for my tastes.

Pants - do the cuffs need to be big enough for ski boots? I go uninsulated softshell 100% of the time, using a next-to-skin layer underneath if I'm really cold. Insulated feels clunky to me, and I value abrasion resistance and breathability over waterproofness for my legs any day. OR Cirque is a good all-arounder.

I choose to do only synthetic puffies so don't have any good advice on down.

In CO, I've been happy with the Arcteryx Psiphon AR as a softshell pant. They're on the heavy end, but they breathe pretty well and are quite durable. With the ankles zipped closed they fit snugly over my mountaineering boots (no external gaiters needed most of the time), and open they fit my ski boots perfectly. I've worn them alone, and with baselayers underneath on colder days. I tend to stick with thinner baselayers to keep me comfortable when moving. I have a pair of the BD Stance pants for belays, but have only worn them when cragging ice on cold days.

Reid Kalmus wrote:I LOVE LOVE LOVE R1 pants! with a good soft shell pant on top is all you need most of the time. If its real cold i'll use Patagonia Northwall pants and coat ( R3 lined softshell ) its the best. I like to keep the top thin and have overly huge belay coat ( DAS Parka one size too big )

Luc wrote: DAS Parkas are cut oversized! They are made to fit over everything you climb with.

Heavier weight merino takes longer to dry, work up a good sweat and you'll be decently warm, but swampy for a bit (especially if you wear a waterproof "breathable" shell). I quit using the heavier merino for anything but resort skiing where I'm never exerting hard.

A very thin merino with a grid fleece like the patagonia R4 over it works great. I haven't found anything that dries faster than the polartec powerdry high efficiency, really comfortable over a broad temp/exertion range.

I would stick to synthetic for an insulator. I have the mirage for ski touring, very warm and light, but fragile. I've had a few tiny holes from the lightest brush of a burred metal edge while transitioning. I'd hate to see it near an ice screw!

Thanks for all the input. Looked at everything recommended and a lot looks great. I'm located in Colorado by the way.

I think I'll stick to the light base layersas suggested. I did discover that patagucci makes a capilene onesie! Seems legit. Anybody have experience with one piece base layers? Seems like it would eliminate some draft.

So many choices with pants and so hard to pull the trigger. Of the suggestions those arc psiphon AR pants seem best suited to me. Definitely have to go scope them out first though. Like how they fit over ski boots unzipped. The OR cirque look nice too. Definitely getting some of those Bd stance pants! Those look ideal for the cold belays.

Slightly put off by the montbell mirage now due to lack of durability. I'm not super set on down so some synthetic options would be nice to hear.

Again, thanks a bunch.

I have the previous Cap 4 one piece suit. The overlap at the lower back wasn't tight enough and didn't overlap enough to keep it closed, so it actually was draftier than a separate top and bottom. Really comfortable, though, and they seem to have fixed the draft issue with a zipper this year.

I also own an I/O Merino Pilot Suit ( iomerino.com/pilot-suit) that is a little lighter weight than the Cap 4 suit and doesn't have the draft issues.

Nice looking synthetic parkas that I'd look at if I was shopping: Atom AR, Nuclei AR, DAS Parka, Rab Photon X, Rab Nebula or Cirrus. I only have experience with the Atom AR, and I like it a lot. I really want to see a Nuclei AR, but the new Nebula and Cirrus look great if their newfangled Cirrus insulation is legitimately as warm as 600 fill down.

I feel like I have a pretty good system going:

Lightweight baselayers - I believe mine are by The North Face
Mountain Hardwear thin beanie that fits well under my helmet
Neck gaiter (helps a lot!)
Outdoor Research Cirque pants - warm, light, comfortable
Arcteryx Atom LT (THE ice climbing jacket)
Belay jacket (currently getting by with a TNF thermoball but looking at a heavier option, like Patagonia's DAS parka or the BD equivalent)
Patagonia Torrentshell hard shell (looking to upgrade)
Gloves: One pair of OR contact gloves, one pair of Rab Baltoro

I like to stick with synthetic so I don't have to worry about keeping it dry. I've climbed with the above combination in everything from bluebird 30 degree days in Hyalite to -30 degree days outside of Canmore, and even on Dragontail Peak in early Spring.

I've got a Rab Generator Alpine for sale. Men's large. 100g PrimaLoft Gold in the torso and 60g PrimaLoft Gold in the arms & hood. New condition. $90.

The Rab Alpine Generator is a sweet jacket! I've the same one, and I wouldn't sell it- no way.