New Route Ethics

I am looking at a potential route on Table Rock but want to get imput on the ethics. I know hand drilling bolts on lead is the standard but didn't know what else is needed to know. I don't have much experience bolting so this is not something I will do until I have a lot of experience. I prefere gear placements wherever possible. Any constructive criticism will be appreciated.

If this is not the most direct troll of all time, I guess it bears a reply...

It would take a small volume of books to properly illuminate and convey all of the various FA standpoints throughout the SE. And, believe you me.....they are SCREWED UP in some spots. But....

If you are talking about NC/SC (I assume TR, NC), yes, hand-drilling on-lead is the manliest, purist, and most historically respectful way to go....although, you'd be hard pressed to find more than one or two people engaged in this sort of thing, in the South, today.

I see no problem with a good old Bosch hammer drill on lead, myself, but I don't FA anywhere in NC where folks care about that sort of thing. Battery powered drills have been deployed, on lead, widely at Laurel Knob, down in Panthertown, at Linville, Looking Glass, and more obscure places.

A word of caution... If we are talking about Table Rock, NC, you may want to take heed. I would wager that everything worth doing on TR has already been done. Others would know better.

The MAIN thing is this....don't screw up and damage the rock excessively. I.E.....get someone to show you.... ESPECIALLY if you intend to hand-drill.

where were you wanting to put up a line?

+1 to what Ben said. Long history of doing things the right way up there. Make sure you do your research :)

Here we go...

Since Linville Gorge is a wilderness area, and drills are considered motorized equipment. They are out of the question. So your only choice would be a hand drill, and if you have never hand-drilled a bolt, please don't start on Table Rock.

It begs repeating, just because something has lichen on it doesn't mean it was never climbed. If you want an adventure, go climb a route without looking at a guide. There are plenty out there that are not in any guides with few repeats.

If you are still not satisfied, you may want to check out Black Dome's Guidebook in Asheville. They used to have a copy with notable ascents.

There is certainly room for lines to go up at Table Rock, though the locations are less traveled. The guidebook suggestion is a good one to ensure the proposed line is in fact a new line. Also worthwhile would be to engage the North Carolina Outward Bound school located at Table Rock as they will have a very good idea of the history at Table Rock (a large number of the routes were established by the school's climbing instructors). The person you want to talk to is Corey Winstead, the Chief Climbing Instructor.

As for hand drilling vs. power drilling, Table Rock itself is not actually within the wilderness boundary so power drilling is technically permitted there, but not elsewhere in the Gorge. Hand drilling on lead is the purest ethic, for sure, but this may not always create the most logical route or the best bolt placements. Consequently, the ethics exist in a bit of a gray area. Since pretty much any point on Table Rock could be accessed from the top, there's no excuses not to have well placed bolts in good rock in ideal positions to optimize clipping stances, best protection, and best rope management. That said, there is still plenty of bolting that happens on the lead with a power drill when a ground-up approach is demanded by the terrain.

I'd post on the Western Carolina Climber's Association Facebook page to get connected with locals who could help out. Nathan Brown, Ron Funderburke, and Sean Coburn all come to mind as potential developers who could lend some advice and maybe a helping hand.

Fortunately we didn't have this issue in the Adirondaks. Divine intervention stepped in to help us.

The Mudders Manifesto
The Mudder's Manifesto was delivered by the Korgar, the God of Adirondak climbing to Richard Felch the First, who being Jewish, has inherited a long tradition of miracles. As Felch, now the high priest of Korgarism, was inspecting a route, a stone sitting precariously on a ledge spoke out saying. "Trundle me, oh worthless and undeserving servant. Hurl me down upon the troglodytes cringing amongst the talus." Felch, in sudden awe, shrugged his shoulders and said, "Okay." and kicked the stone down upon miscreants at the base.

After much cursing, the stone was inspected and found to have an inscription written in burning lichen upon it. And the stone read:

Those who would attempt to establish first ascents upon The Mud must abide by the following eleven commandments (well, more like guidelines really).

The word "Scamper" is to be stricken from the language. Those who blaspheme using this word shall be subject to repeated humiliation and failure.

All members are sworn to secrecy. Rituals such as hi-signs, bloodletting, belching and farting shall be used to induct neophytes.

Any member revealing the secret location of routes shall be beaten soundly about the head and shoulders with stones no smaller than a baseball but no bigger than a toaster oven.

All humiliating fiascos are to be shared amongst other climbers provided they are not witnessed by outsiders.

Napalm is only to be used to expose routes of 5.12 or harder.

Routes must be regularly graded under the expected norm. Snickering as others flail is considered a virtuous act.

Bolts are only to be placed when you feel like it but the use of a power tool must be employed.

Bolts must be placed in such a way that jockeys, basketball players and sumo wrestlers can reach them easily.

Ponderous decisions shall not be deliberated upon for more than ten seconds. If an impasse is reached amongst the congregation, Rock Paper Scissors shall be used to settle the dispute. If doubt still exists, the most ridiculous option must be chosen.

Any member exhibiting climbing skill greater than the founding fathers, as chosen by the great Korgar, shall be exiled to a flat, nondescript, Midwestern state.

frank minunni wrote:Fortunately we didn't have this issue in the Adirondaks. Divine intervention stepped in to help us. The Mudders Manifesto

Good stuff. We are not so blessed here in the South, with a relative lack of Jewish soothsayers.

Here, we must rely on grit, determination, and the mighty auspices of the Hard Pipe Swingers Coalition. They work in close contact with the South Georgia Hard Aid and Alpinism Club. HPSC and SGHAAC, respectively.

"The Coaltion" lives on through the work of a select few....chopping errant bolts and cleaning up manky installations at a crag near you. They are always watching...lurking in the shadows...with a pipe and a wrench....and a list.

"The Club" has fallen on hard times. Word is that the President, CEO, and founding member of the SGHAAC has abandoned the South for the clearer skies, taller objectives, and less "Southern" women of Southwest Wyoming. The Treasurer, Secretary, Travel Advisor, and Media Coordinator (all one person) followed suit. They were the only members.

May Korgar smile upon our Southern states... Hand drillers and all.

youtube.com/watch?v=PChN2A_…

#GTFO

Paul Barnes wrote:Here we go...

frank minunni wrote:Fortunately we didn't have this issue in the Adirondaks. Divine intervention stepped in to help us. The Mudders Manifesto The Mudder's Manifesto was delivered by the Korgar, the God of Adirondak climbing to Richard Felch the First, who being Jewish, has inherited a long tradition of miracles. As Felch, now the high priest of Korgarism, was inspecting a route, a stone sitting precariously on a ledge spoke out saying. "Trundle me, oh worthless and undeserving servant. Hurl me down upon the troglodytes cringing amongst the talus." Felch, in sudden awe, shrugged his shoulders and said, "Okay." and kicked the stone down upon miscreants at the base. After much cursing, the stone was inspected and found to have an inscription written in burning lichen upon it. And the stone read: Those who would attempt to establish first ascents upon The Mud must abide by the following eleven commandments (well, more like guidelines really). The word "Scamper" is to be stricken from the language. Those who blaspheme using this word shall be subject to repeated humiliation and failure. All members are sworn to secrecy. Rituals such as hi-signs, bloodletting, belching and farting shall be used to induct neophytes. Any member revealing the secret location of routes shall be beaten soundly about the head and shoulders with stones no smaller than a baseball but no bigger than a toaster oven. All humiliating fiascos are to be shared amongst other climbers provided they are not witnessed by outsiders. Napalm is only to be used to expose routes of 5.12 or harder. Routes must be regularly graded under the expected norm. Snickering as others flail is considered a virtuous act. Bolts are only to be placed when you feel like it but the use of a power tool must be employed. Bolts must be placed in such a way that jockeys, basketball players and sumo wrestlers can reach them easily. Ponderous decisions shall not be deliberated upon for more than ten seconds. If an impasse is reached amongst the congregation, Rock Paper Scissors shall be used to settle the dispute. If doubt still exists, the most ridiculous option must be chosen. Any member exhibiting climbing skill greater than the founding fathers, as chosen by the great Korgar, shall be exiled to a flat, nondescript, Midwestern state.

As I recall the broken stone, when pieced back together called its reign of power to be planet wide.
Enforced by Bears that would keep climbers from air strips and food cashes, or 49 pound marmots
That caught rocks in Thier mouths when a hard pitch should have been a head shot.

If I read that right it applies from Trieste to Temecula and all points of rock that could be called North Country that lie in between.

But so the same holds true for this

The one rule of fight club . . . .

(Not that I agree with that or this,)
I just think it needs to be said

Making Sausage is not pretty

But if you ask a thousand climbers. . . You will get more than a thousand
Answers,
You will get a thousand answeres to questions you never asked

STFU

HTFU

climb it the way you want B=D

Walk to the Gold Coast and go exploring. There's rocks to be climbed over there and you might not even need to worry with those pesky bolt things.

Too bad Rhett followed ME out here :) The SGHAAC still holds regular meetings. Why, just the other day we climbed a large pile of mud in the desert. The south will rise again!!

YOURRR GONNAA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

your 21... go have a few epics and climb till your 30 then work on hand drilling routes :) or move out west were there is no need... or if you want to drill go join the SCC :)

UncleBen: do you want to join as the social media content coordinator?

Hell now, we just get young bucks to shlep our ropes up so we can jug and jump :)

Awesome! In order get this thing started off, I have prepared my "Southern Ethics Circlejerk" Bingo Card! Looks like we already have a couple of spaces filled!

I am only one day late and this thread is to long to read. Can someone give me the cliff notes? I really want to chime in!

Hey sam, maybe you'd like to fill us in on which ones are filled? I can't reed so gud.

sam england wrote:Awesome! In order get this thing started off, I have prepared my "Southern Ethics Circlejerk" Bingo Card! Looks like we already have a couple of spaces filled!

Tears in my eyes from laughing so hard. Even funnier than This Thread Gave Me Eola graphic in Top Rope Gangbang thread.

Sam.
That's some funny stuff.
But you gotta name other names...you talk about Shannon too much.
Good that you've moved.
Hope the cooler weather treats you better.
Too hot here for you?

Ryan...
You got a list yet???
How's YB today??
No change?
Figures.

Or shall you chime in? Mmmnaw. Probably not.

sam england wrote:Awesome! In order get this thing started off, I have prepared my "Southern Ethics Circlejerk" Bingo Card! Looks like we already have a couple of spaces filled!

somebody give this guy a medal.