Ultralight C4 questions

1. Will standard C4's stop being made, or will they keep both for people that want stronger and more durable and lightweight options? I couldn't tell from the OR show reports

2. If old C4s stay, will they make them here in the states?

3. Is there a place to find the specs on the new ultralight C4s?

I'm interested in the ultralights, but not the price! If they made the old C4s in the states I'd prefer to buy those for the normal price as they strike me as far more durable. Want to hold out for a while anyway as those X4s durability is not anywhere close to what I would expect from BD...

theyll keep making the C4s

the BIG question is how long the "lifetime" of these new dyneema cams are ... most manufacturers recommend retiring even unused dyneema in 10 years ... BD hasnt put out any real guidance as far as ive seen

also will daily or weekly use reduce that lifespan to say 5 years or less even if the cam still looks fine

;)

1) Camalot C4s will continue to be made

2) Black Diamond said that production will be moving back to the USA. My local gear shop already has a bunch of Camalot C4s that are made in the USA! So far, almost all of the made in the USA Camalots have darker and richer anodized colours compared to the washed-out and pale anodized colours of the made in China Camalots

3) The Camalot Ultralights are 2kN weaker than the corresponding Camalot C4s. I have not yet seen weight specs published anywhere

Pete,

The specs are here

Jim

James Sweeney wrote: Pete, The specs are here Jim

NICE!!!

Thanks!

Khoi would you be able to post a picture of a made in usa c4 next to a made in china c4? I want to see the difference between the two

if not no worries

I'm curious if the ultralights will have the same 2kn reduction in strength if clipped directly to the thumb loop instead of the sling. Also if strop hitching the thumb loop with a runner will be any different than with the cabled thumbs of the c4s

From what I've seen, BD has said that the lifetime of the Ultralights will be the same as the regular C4s (minus the fact that they may wear more quickly with heavy use). The dyneema stem doesn't seem to be an issue, it's fully protected from UV radiation, which is what weakens dyneema normally and calls for retirement after 10 years.

Actually its 10 years for say petzl soft goods regardless of use or exposure

petzl.com/en/Sport/FAQ/when…

That may be conservative but thats what they say

If anyone has actualy documentation from BD on the new UL camalots lifespan id love to see it

;)

Oh great! That's all I need-more cams to buy...

😁😉

Those new C4s look interesting, as do the others.
The contact surface of the lobes on the new DMM Cam look odd. Be nice to see 'em in the flesh.

Brian Abram wrote:I'm curious if the ultralights will have the same 2kn reduction in strength if clipped directly to the thumb loop instead of the sling. Also if strop hitching the thumb loop with a runner will be any different than with the cabled thumbs of the c4s

the 2kn strength reduction is due to less metal on the lobes so it shouldn't make a difference where you clip it.

eli poss wrote: the 2kn strength reduction is due to less metal on the lobes so it shouldn't make a difference where you clip it.

Sorry I wasn't clear. I am referring to the C4s losing 2kn strength if your biner is clipped directly to the thumb loop instead of the sling. I'm curious if the Ultralights are the same given the difference in thumb loop construction. Also wonder if the thumb loop can kink the same way C4s supposedly can if the loop is clipped directly and fallen on.

My guess would it would depend on the plastic they used for it. Although the sling can't kink if the plastic is still hard (although it does look different maybe softer) there would still be the chance of it kinking and creating a sharp edge that could cut the sling over time.

I like the dyneema concept. Could be good for salt water environs as well. Still, metal lasts longer than textile, so my first/cragging set I want durable. I think it is great that bd is keeping both as lines, especially with the price tag approaching 100$$.

So glad to hear that BD is bringing at least some of their manufacturing back to SLC. I have held off buying them for quite some time just because of that. Kudos, and congrats on a better carbon footprint, very close control of manufacturing, and jobs in the USA.

Oh, also meant to add I am very intrigued by the "Continuous dyneema loop". If they could make full on slings without bar tacking them together.... That would be amazing!

Pete Spri wrote:Oh, also meant to add I am very intrigued by the "Continuous dyneema loop". If they could make full on slings without bar tacking them together.... That would be amazing!

It's not a continuous loop. There is grey nylon stitching attaching the two pieces of Dyneema. It terminates at the thumb loop and you can see the stitching by looking through the clear plastic.

Interesting, thanks for the heads up on that.

I wonder why,what they patented with reference to "continuous loop".

marketing

Pete Spri wrote:Oh, also meant to add I am very intrigued by the "Continuous dyneema loop". If they could make full on slings without bar tacking them together.... That would be amazing!

I've tried bringing that up too. It seems like weird terminology for a company like Petzl to use if there's no difference between this and a bar tacked sling.

If they've accomplished true continuous loop dyneema, that's incredible, and I want to know more. But I haven't yet heard anything to this affect (or against it).

Continuous loop is impossible.. there is no way to start a line of textile and make a loop without it ever breaking. There is always some kinda splicing that would have to be done. I would prefer a bar tack that I can see and inspect than some kinda hidden "continuous loop".

ViperScale wrote:Continuous loop is impossible.. there is no way to start a line of textile and make a loop without it ever breaking. There is always some kinda splicing that would have to be done. I would prefer a bar tack that I can see and inspect than some kinda hidden "continuous loop".

I think at some point someone will be able to extrude nylon in a 24" circle that will be strong enough for climbing spec. It's just a matter of time.

Ultrasonic welding will also start making its way into climbing textiles.