Interesting encounter at Canal Zone on Friday

We were climbing at canal zone on Friday evening in CCC and a gentlemen was setting a new route to the right of the 5.8's, some sort of 5.7 for the kids as he put it. He was using solid 3/8" hardware with 30k hangers. Everything seemed really good. He was hand drilling and there was only 1 other group there. Basically a perfect time to set a route.

A open space ranger showed up and was grilling him pretty good about what he was doing, what hardware he was using (despite not knowing anything about it), took pictures, but eventually left him alone.

Interestingly the ranger was saying they can remove any bolts whenever they want without notice. Now it sounded like it was more along the lines of they will remove bolts they don't feel are safe, not just chopping down routes. The ranger also mentioned they would be removing some routes that may have been put up with "Home Depot" hardware from what we understood but the ranger would not tell us where they were located.

I was belaying at the time and couldn't catch the whole convo but the setter was doing what looked like a good job and using good hardware so hopefully all is well there.

My real question is if anyone knows anything about the "Home Depot" hardware and where in the canyon it might be? Also what open space is doing to preserve climbing or if we should be worried about it soon in CCC?

Interesting encounter. My climbing partner, Dale Haas, and I have been replacing cold shut hangers on a number of routes in Clear Creek Canyon. Usually the bolts are good (if not, we replace them with Powers 5-piece SS), but the hangers, especially if they are used for rappel/lowering/belaying(!!) are not. The American Safe Climbing Association (ASCA - safeclimbing.org) has been providing replacement hardware.

Super strange! You'll find a mixed bag of hardware throughout the canyon. The origin of the vast majority of the bolts would be impossible to tell without removing the stud entirely, and even then it'd be hard. Some bolts are easily identifiable like powers 5 piece and triplex, but the stud bolts are a whole other ballpark. Sounds to me like a seasonal ranger who doesn't know what he's talking about. Jeffco has had a great relationship with climbers and I don't see them doing anything drastic without some community input.

Man, I totally thought this was about something different.

Max Supertramp wrote:Man, I totally thought this was about something different.

Yeah, something related to "Kinky Rope," huh?

What a Tool.

Here's a question - is there no application or review process for the canyon for putting up hardware?

Like metal sign in boxes!

HA - only joking before someone beats me to it - but it was a serious question...

Matt Pierce wrote:Here's a question - is there no application or review process for the canyon for putting up hardware? Like metal sign in boxes! HA - only joking before someone beats me to it - but it was a serious question...

As far as I know, no. I don't believe there is much oversight there at all. The reason this got noticed at all is that it was an extremely popular cliff, on a weekend, next to a trail.

I doubt the rangers ability/knowledge to chop or replace bolts.

He probably meant well but it sure comes off as a lot of bluster.

Just throwing this out there...... is it time to start considering formation of a Local Climbing Organization for CCC? I know the BCC has talked about expanding to include the Golden area, but I wonder if there is a need for something more locally driven?

So many people are doing stewardship in the canyon, it might be nice to have a more formal way for coordinating efforts (and communicating with JeffCo since Mike Morin is no longer involved).

Would love to hear people's thoughts on this....

Matt Pierce wrote:Here's a question - is there no application or review process for the canyon for putting up hardware?

Currently there is no application/review process in Jefferson County Open Space. There are some places where bolting is explicitly forbidden like 3 sisters, but at the majority of areas there is no process or limitations other than the local ethics of the area. I wouldn't be surprised if they have a plan in place for limiting bolting in CCC though especially with the construction of the bike path.

ErikaNW wrote:Just throwing this out there...... is it time to start considering formation of a Local Climbing Organization for CCC? I know the BCC has talked about expanding to include the Golden area, but I wonder if there is a need for something more locally driven?

The BCC is already working with Jeffco on the Darkside Trail (Morrison Boulders) so adding another LCO to the mix could be confusing for Jeffco coordinators. Maybe their could be a Golden/ Jeffco representative in the BCC or a southern chapter (hehe don't know why that makes me giggle). Regardless I agree that without Mike Morin pulling strings within the organization, we've lost a voice/community relationship with Jeffco. I say that with no disrespect to what the BCC has been able to coordinate in terms of trail work in the area. You guys are awesome and have done great work!

A JeffCo rep for the BCC is a good idea. Someone willing to attend the board meetings and be an ambassador from the climbing community to JeffCo would be a good way to keep regular lines of communication open. I reached out to a few folks at JeffCo when I saw this post, but haven't heard anything yet. I'll report back if I do.

I heard back from the folks at JeffCo. First off no climbing hardware is being removed from the canyon. The hardware being removed is for highlining and according the email I got, it consists of all-thread inserted into the rock with a nut and washer holding links of chain as a hanger. I'll see if I can get a photo to post up.

Mike Morin wrote:I heard back from the folks at JeffCo. First off no climbing hardware is being removed from the canyon. The hardware being removed is for highlining and according the email I got, it consists of all-thread inserted into the rock with a nut and washer holding links of chain as a hanger. I'll see if I can get a photo to post up.

You're the man Mike! Thanks for digging into this and please post those pics!

Mike Morin wrote:I heard back from the folks at JeffCo. First off no climbing hardware is being removed from the canyon. The hardware being removed is for highlining and according the email I got, it consists of all-thread inserted into the rock with a nut and washer holding links of chain as a hanger. I'll see if I can get a photo to post up.

Thanks Mike. I figured someone would know what is up. The ranger was a really nice person and was eager to learn about what was being done. I think there was just some confusion in the conversation that had us a bit worried. I am guessing the ranger just didn't know enough to correctly explain what was going on and what the concerns were.

Of greater concern, at least in my book, is the construction of the bike path.
Have you ever looked closely at what they've done already?
If you have, think about the heavy handed tactics they've already used and then look at some of the narrower places in the canyon. Places where there are numerous established rock climbs.

I come at this from both a climbers and river runners point of view. I can tell you the river folks are already less than thrilled with what they have done.
They aren't into any prime climbing areas yet....but it would be a good idea for folks with an eye towards protecting climbing to start paying attention.

-Josh

^^^^ this

It really does seem that we are at a point where we need to have a voice in recreation management for the canyon (i.e.; I am worried it is going to start being more highly managed whether we like it or not and we need climber representation at that table as Mike suggested.)

J. Thompson wrote:Of greater concern, at least in my book, is the construction of the bike path. Have you ever looked closely at what they've done already? If you have, think about the heavy handed tactics they've already used and then look at some of the narrower places in the canyon. Places where there are numerous established rock climbs. I come at this from both a climbers and river runners point of view. I can tell you the river folks are already less than thrilled with what they have done. They aren't into any prime climbing areas yet....but it would be a good idea for folks with an eye towards protecting climbing to start paying attention. -Josh

I have to agree. When I first heard of the Peaks to Plains Trail I was really excited. When I saw the tactics at work up close I was appalled. I encourage all CCC climbers to drive up canyon and have a look at what is happening. Like Josh said, the easy work is happening now. I shudder to think what it will take to force the trail through the lower canyon.

Even if you choose to overlook the environmental damage, the trail has already been a problem for climbers. It's been used as an excuse to close several climbing areas for nearly two years with no end in sight. Considering the copious quantities of loose rock in CCC, it seems like it will only be a matter of time before crags uphill from the trail are closed.

ErikaNW wrote:^^^^ this It really does seem that we are at a point where we need to have a voice in recreation management for the canyon (i.e.; I am worried it is going to start being more highly managed whether we like it or not and we need climber representation at that table as Mike suggested.)

Sounds like you just volunteered. ;)

Bruce Hildenbrand wrote:Interesting encounter. My climbing partner, Dale Haas, and I have been replacing cold shut hangers on a number of routes in Clear Creek Canyon. Usually the bolts are good (if not, we replace them with Powers 5-piece SS), but the hangers, especially if they are used for rappel/lowering/belaying(!!) are not. The American Safe Climbing Association (ASCA - safeclimbing.org) has been providing replacement hardware.

Thank you.

The current peaks to plains trail project ends at the Vasquez Bridge east of the Mayhem Gulch trailhead: peaks2plains.wordpress.com/…

Most of the cuts for this phase have already been made. Brutish perhaps, maybe even temporarily bad for water quality, but minimal long term effects on climbing... On the other hand, any future continuation of the trail east, toward Golden, would likely necessitate a mix of road widening and cutting into existing climbing routes. The tunnel 2-3 area comes to mind as a bottleneck, at times with climbing on both sides of the road.

Just improve the linkup from Mayhem Gulch up to Centennial Cone and route the trail down Golden Gate Canyon Road into Golden? Or is that vert too inconvenient?

I am concerned by the unkowns here. Was the routing decision made long ago, behind closed doors, or what?

From what I was told by open space earlier this year is there is a serious funding issue to make it further down the canyon. They made it sound like there was basically no plans because of the cost. I believe the route is set though if they do get the funding.

I agree that the river running and climbing community should get to the table for the next phase though as tunnels 2-3 will be a serious issue.