Grivel tools suck!

Well since I have not been able to get any support from Grivel or from Liberty Mountain with this issue, I figured I would smear their name where they might pay attention.

I have for a month now been trying to get a useable pair of Monster-X replacement picks for my Quantum Tech ice tools. The problem I have encountered is that out of the box, the key lock style tool head will not fit flush at the attachment point with the shaft. I have taken delivery of 3 pairs of brand new replacement picks (2 pairs from Backcountry.com and one from my local gear shop). Putting on the hardware and trying to crank them in place does nothing, using a c-clamp to press them in failed as well. I even took a needle file to try and create some space, failed. My tool shafts are not damaged in case you were wondering.

Backcountry.com were kind enough to take them back free of charge and refund me so I commend them for their service and i'm happy to give them my money in the future despite the fact that they were unable to give me anything I could use to rectify the problem.

I called Liberty Mountain and spoke with two different people who couldn't tell me anything other than that the tool heads should fit flush without any filing or drama. Yeah no shit!

I emailed Grivel in Couremayer,Italy hoping to get some insight. I have yet to receive any kind of response.

I have come to the conclusion that this problem is a defect in the manufacturing process. Chances are that when they stamp the keylock into the tool head, this did so as to achieve the correct tolerances and fit with the shaft. The tool head is then dipped into a corrosion resistant coating that alters the tolerances between the tool head and shaft, thus my problem. For someone who has worked in manufacturing, this is unforgiveable and is just lazy craftsmanship.

At this point I am going to have to either take a dremel to the key lock or take them to a machine shop to see what they can do for me to get things to line up.

To say the least, this has soured my view of Grivel in general. I love these tools and have gotten several years of good use out of them. I believe that when I purchased them, they were the best option for moderate alpine mixed climbing. But what good is a superior product if there is no support after the sale or if they are garbage after one set of picks.

These will be the last Grivel products I purchase. I highly recommend Black Diamond as in my opinion, they set the bar for after the sale service. They truly stand behind their products and have earned my business.

In conclusion, my objective with this post is to shame Grivel or Liberty Mountain into addressing this issue on their website with a fix or to at least stop pretending like these things should just bolt right up out of the box. I welcome any suggestions from the community as its getting cold in the high country here in CO and i'm stoked for swinging some picks.

Jerod

WTF?

Interesting. After reading this I went and checked out my two sets of grivel tools. Mine both fit flush so I realize something isnt quite right with yours.

After you've put the three nuts and bolts in and snug them up, does it affect the tools integrity or performance at all?

Why does it matter? I don't understand? Will that slight variance matter in the real world?

Zac.St.Jules wrote:Interesting. After reading this I went and checked out my two sets of grivel tools. Mine both fit flush so I realize something isnt quite right with yours. After you've put the three nuts and bolts in and snug them up, does it affect the tools integrity or performance at all?

Yes, I put the bolts on and attempted to snug it up that way with no luck. Tightening them the way you would lug nuts on a car in that spider web pattern.

djh860 wrote:Why does it matter? I don't understand? Will that slight variance matter in the real world?

It absolutely affects the performance. It would be akin to shooting at a target with your sights off of zero. The angle of the pick has an effect on the swing and the efficiency of that swing.

I dont know man. Looks like about 2mm offset. Youre not aiming at targets, youre swinging at ice.

Zac.St.Jules wrote:I dont know man. Looks like about 2mm offset. Youre not aiming at targets, youre swinging at ice.

Even still, I cannot replicate the stock fitment. Its just frustrating that I spent roughly $600 on tools that advertise replaceable picks that cost $60 a piece and i'm getting no service whatsoever from Grivel or their stateside distributor Liberty Mountain.

Jerod Mendolia wrote: Even still, I cannot replicate the stock fitment. Its just frustrating that I spent roughly $600 on tools that advertise replaceable picks that cost $60 a piece and i'm getting no service whatsoever from Grivel or their stateside distributor Liberty Mountain.

Like I said before, I realize its not quite right, but being realistic with yourself, do you really feel like it affects the performance? perhaps it was within the tolerance of grivel's manufacturing process because theye knew it wouldn't mess with performance or integrity.

Only go Petzl Nomics bro.

Hi Jerod, can you post a picture with the replacement pick off the tool, and a picture with the original pick? If possible, take at least two picture for each setup: one side view, one view from the angle as you are climbing facing the back of the tool.

Also, another way to double check is to use a ruler and measure the thickness of your new pick vs the old pick at the part where you are mounting on the tool. Then report these measurements on here for us to better review your problem. Cheers

All of the brands have problems. You will find problems if you climb enough ice, or live in a area with a high concentration of ice climbers. Clunky Petzl tool heads and stupid pick re-design, and toe bails that explode. Broken BD picks and the infamous stainless steel issues. Bent Camp/Cassin picks. Pick your favorite failure mode or Q/C issue! You will break something eventually if you climb enough ice.

That sucks, don't get me wrong. I understand your frustration.

However, you asked for suggestions. A few seconds with a flap wheel on an angle grinder and you'll be straight. Hit the raw steel with some Rust-o-leum if you're worried about corrosion. You'd probably only have to do very minimal contouring to get them to fit, and all told, it'd have zero effect on actual performance.

"But what good is a superior product if there is no support after the sale or if they are garbage after one set of picks."

That's up to you. You don't need support if you can solve your own problems. And I'd never _expect_ good customer service from a small Italian company with a limited US footprint. Actually, I never expect good customer service from _anyone_, which makes it a real pleasure when I receive it.

I thought ice climbers were supposed to be bad-asses. Make it work, dude!

Man, that's too bad. I really like those tools.

Interesting time we live in. As American consumers, we've come to expect being treated like Gods. Italians don't give a shit. Hahaha!

I love my grivel stuff. All of it. Still prefer climbing on my X-dreams (even with the garbage steel they use to fabricate their picks). Grivel's metallurgy is so far superior to Camp's or BD's that it's laughable.

Like someone above said - a sharpie, a dremel, and 10 minutes of work would have had you back in business. Oh well.

Sounds frustrating, but probably worth your time to mod a tiny bit and move on (if possible). Those tools swing like a dream, and the steel is fantastic as mentioned above. Sorry you're having trouble.

Took a look at my Monster picks just now - seems like any pooling of the clearcoat in the corners of the recess could result in a significant mis-fit like op`s.
I have a brand new Adze pick that I pulled off a Matrix Tech to swap for a hammer, and the clearcoat in the bottom corners of the recess is obviously marred from contact with the shaft head.
Curious whether op`s picks feature recesses that were actually stamped too shallow, or were just slightly over-coated. If the depth is correct and the shaft head is binding on the gently beveled side of the recess in the pick, clearing a bit of the clearcoat away with a knife or dremel seems like it would yield a good fit in a matter of minutes.

saltlick wrote:Took a look at my Monster picks just now - seems like any pooling of the clearcoat in the corners of the recess could result in a significant mis-fit like op`s. I have a brand new Adze pick that I pulled off a Matrix Tech to swap for a hammer, and the clearcoat in the bottom corners of the recess is obviously marred from contact with the shaft head. Curious whether op`s picks feature recesses that were actually stamped too shallow, or were just slightly over-coated. If the depth is correct and the shaft head is binding on the gently beveled side of the recess in the pick, clearing a bit of the clearcoat away with a knife or dremel seems like it would yield a good fit in a matter of minutes.

lulzy

guess i shoulda seen that coming...

we`ll be a wonderful father!!

So after very slowly and carefully grinding at the key lock, I have been able to achieve an acceptable tolerance between the tool head and the shaft.

I'd like to retract my previous statement that Grivel tools suck. truth be told, I love these tools. They have served me well for many years and would buy them again. What frustrated me was the lack of communication. A simple statement from the manufacturer that some light modification is necessary to achieve near stock fitment would have satisfied me. I suspect that in the factory these tools are pressed into place mechanically as opposed to by hand. Having worked in medical device manufacturing, I have a high expectation of quality for machine work.

Lessons learned:

1. Don't expect service from climbing companies and praise them when they do.

2. Sometimes its just easier to fix it yourself instead of bitching about it.

3. Issues like this are a good excuse to buy a Dremel.

Thanks for the input everyone. See you in the hills!

Correct tolerances

2 things:

#1 Glad you came around

#2 I'm dying to climb some damn ice. WHY NO ICE CALIFORNIA?!?!?!?!?