An Open Letter to My Climbing Community

Jovid wrote:Mark, that's a pretty ridiculous comparison.. We climb because we enjoy it... and we climb with certain people because we enjoy their company and trust them. However, I'm not sure we all care to read your ignorant shit. We accept the risks associated with climbing because we get something out of it: it's fulfilling, fun, challenging, good exercise... etc. Reading your petty comments in this thread is exhausting and UN-fulfilling.

Hmm, well seems like you started the name calling and profanity. I just raised the question of whether there is a contradiction between enjoying a sometimes life and death sport and objecting to forum arguments that might at worst imperil one's ego or threaten one's preconceptions.

Flag me if you feel the need to maintain an atmosphere of peace and love. Or maybe just stop
people names.

Mark, you're right. Let's drop this and let this thread live on without you and I.

Arizona folks are LOL

Route beta.
Buying and selling.
The rest is B.S.

And...by the way...I totally agree with you Emily. It seems almost every forum thread disintegrates into elementary school name calling.

My wife used to climb with me, but she's been so put off by the arrogance and unwelcoming attitudes of climbers that she doesn't like it anymore. It's become so much about looking cool and much less about actually climbing rocks and being out in nature. It's sad.

^^^ a pathetic excuse not to climb... By the way people will judge you on your looks no matter where you go, except for Washington state and parts of Montana maybe. I am against bulying. I agree with Emily too. This site needs serious attitude adjustment. You are not very appealing.

Emily, I would so like for you and your team to finally start developing new climbs in the Catalinas. There is just so much potential there. Clean up the rocks, trott the trails, so Mt. Lemmon can be put on a map as a climbing destination.

Good honest post. I can't make impolite people change their ways, but I can certainly try and be polite myself, for my own sake and sanity. After all an angry young man is kinda cool, but an angry old man is just sad and pathetic.

Emily, could you provide a link to the offending thread? Some of us don't follow every thread on MP, so we have no idea what you're talking about. I tried a search, but couldn't find it based on what you said here.

Thanks!

GO

Jovid wrote:Mark, you're right. Let's drop this and let this thread live on without you and I.

Good idea, I'll try to refrain. Soon, I promise :-)

I'm not really anti- civility and friendliness.
It's just something about these occasional posts bemoaning the horrors of MP and climbers in general, that sets me off.

It just doesn't seem like that rough a neighborhood. And rather than asking others to "keep it down" seems like there's more potential for personal growth if folks learn to stand up for themselves. That sometimes means making others uncomfortable and sometimes means making a fool of oneself. It gets easier with practice. Especially making a fool of oneself, at least for me.

And I disagree with Bryan. I've seen many folks here broaden their perspective over the years.

Brian wrote:

posted a pie chart.

Thats what I was talking about. The pie chart describes everybody as being emotional. This is the mistake most of the offended folks make I think. I have no personal feelings about any of the shit I post on this site. It's all a big joke. If you get offended I am not angry you disagree with me. It's like surfing TV channels...next!

We should schedule a bar fight to close these threads.. shirts vs skins?

Seems fitting.

GabeO wrote:Emily, could you provide a link to the offending thread? Some of us don't follow every thread on MP, so we have no idea what you're talking about. I tried a search, but couldn't find it based on what you said here. Thanks! GO

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/cochise-stronghold-adopt-a-crag-sept-26th/111031907

Note that many of the posts have been removed.

On-line civility aside, I would agree with the OP that, at times, it does feel as though you need to pick a side here in Tucson and that that affects my enthusiasm for doing the adopt-a-crag events.

Charles Vernon wrote: mountainproject.com/v/cochi… Note that many of the posts have been removed. On-line civility aside, I would agree with the OP that, at times, it does feel as though you need to pick a side here in Tucson and that that affects my enthusiasm for doing the adopt-a-crag events.

most of the climbing scenes that are divided that I have run into are divided along the same lines. Dopers and non-dopers.

Note:

The OP's post wasn't about MP in a broad sense. It's about the Tucson climbing scene, which is a big embarrassing cluster, as i understand it.

No Tim I don't expect people to put up with it. I expect them to call me out and voice a different opinion.
If they're too tramatized to respond that's not my problem. I don't agree with anything on fox news so I don't watch it. I don't post about how bad it makes feel.
It's pretty easy to that jimbo posted something and just skip right over it.

Mark Dixon, spot on post. People need to grow some thicker skin.

Internet bullying is bull shit. Nobody is standing over them with a gun forcing them to read someone's post.

C Archibald, the Tucson climbing community is one of the friendliest I've ever experienced, and EFR is one of the most caring and giving individuals I've ever met, and I am not alone in that opinion.

Charles if you want to climb wit us that would be fine.

I would also encourage everyone to volunteer to help at both SACC events and CASA events. Both organizations are doing good work.

Jim,

I removed a few lines from your post above. Let EFR and Scott speak for themselves. Moreover I absolutely believe bullying can exist on any medium -- internet or otherwise. Please refrain from dividing our community. Be well.

I hate to pick sides, so I won't. I agree with all of you.

The notion that being offensive should somehow be accepted, or tolerated by "growing a thicker skin" is mis-founded, it doesn't work, and on important projects in the real world it is not conducive to success - that's why we have rules of behavior. People who break the rules are expelled from the group, no matter how good or clever they are, because "we're all smart". That's how it is where I work anyway.