Best size for crag bag

I'm trying to figure out what the best bag for just typical sport cragging would be. I had the BD Bolt 24L in mind, but now I'm concerned it is too small and moved toward the speed 40L. In a perfect world I like to think I'd keep a
70M Rope
~2 shoes
12(+or- 4ish) draws
Harness
water/snacks
spare hard/soft goods for anchors etc.
yadda yadda.
You get the point.

Many thanks!

Also should toss in the fact my typical approach is either eh shmeh whatever to stout scrambling. max like 5 miles?

Whatever bag fits an ikea bag(w/ rope) in it.

I'd say around a 40 would work. It's about what I use. Fits my rope bag inside w/ accessories.

You'll probably also want room and perhaps a pocket dedicated to clothing layers, and a brains pocket for tape, nail clippers, headlamp, guidebook, etc. 40 - 50L is pretty standard for all of that. I would recommend the original arcteryx miura 50 if you can find one. I couldn't be happier with mine.

I enjoy my BD Demon Duffel 42, it fits everything needed for sport cragging

I have the Metolious Crag Station (41L) and it fits 60m rope, shoes, chalk bag, harness, draws (only 6ish), helmet, and 3L water bladder in main compartment. Then I throw keys/snacks/slings, etc in the side pockets.

I use a Deuter Guide Lite 32 for everything from cragging(sport and trad) to multi-day winter alpine excursions. You just have to figure out how to pack it right.

I just picked up a Patagonia Cragsmith 35L and it works great for 60m rope, shoes, draws, anchor stuff, harness, water, etc. If your climbing trad I would recommend something 45L+.

After trying multiple different crag packs of all makes, sizes, and what not... I can say that the black diamond pipedream is by the far the best crag pack I've owned, just a recommendation.

just get a rope bag and use your school backpack. if you pack it neatly, you can fit a whole trad rack, draws, harness, shoes, lunch, water, a roll of toilet paper, and rain gear + whatever you can clip to the outside. plus most rope bags come with a tarp so you minimize the dirt you get into your rope, which is not only annoying but also reduces the lifespan of your rope and also the biners that you lower/TR off of.

Buy used

There are only a few companies making forever packs.
Small firms that stand behind the products they sell.

Black Diamond is NOT one of these -
BD has a very weak warranty only one year and only original owner ?
The pack that I have from thirty years ago, from BD, the Son Of Crag, is still bomber,
so I bought a new Stone 45 Rope Bag -
the pack has only very weak (only cosmetic ?)tool loops

and the grab straps are so weak that they are criminally negligent.

Ribbons of rolled three mil and barely stitched there is no full strength anything to clip the pack into.

My world is not all flat sandy approaches. While I like the idea of no straps to get caught in branches I can not trust this pos to last one good tug on the shoe string grab loop and I can see the pack back at the bottom of the cone.
The idea of a zipper to get to the bottom of the pack should get you to the bottom of the pack
No storm flap protecting the zipper? That is weak sauce too over time gear and rough trails and rocks will make that zipper leak.
The pack is not double walled but it is still a bit on the heavy side.
I called Black diamond to ask about the pack that was listed as "the Stone45 Rope bag! And was told it was not meant as a climbing pack ?! I blew my top yours truly can unleash and I did .
The result was I was blocked from leaving a review of the pack and a week later the "Rope Bag"
Description was erased from the black diamond description, it is still described that way at some web sites.

As I said the size is good but the pack is weak and in no way up to the old black diamond old reputation.

If you want one pack that you can count on there are three or four companies
I have spoken with or have used/owned and so can recommend:

1. TOE
toegear.com/TECHNICAL%20PAC…

2. Cold Cold World
coldcoldworldpacks.com

3. FISH (Atom Smasher Deluxe w/pocket)
fishproducts.com/catalog/ha…

4. Mountain Tools
mtntools.com/cat/mt/packs/1…

5. Metolius
metoliusclimbing.com/packs-…

All of these are reasonably priced.
I think that they are All made in the US .
All burly as hell - unless ordered in specialty lightweight fabrics,
for alpinism etc.

These are top quality no-bullshit designs made by climbers, for climbers.

Both Randy Raykliff of CCW, and TOE to a greater extent, will make you a custom sack.
Tuttle knows what he's doing .

I mean, seriously. Look at what you can get for under $150:

Crag:
toegear.com/CLIMBING.html
coldcoldworldpacks.com/ozon…

Alpine:
toegear.com/LOGAN%20PACK.html
coldcoldworldpacks.com/vald…

FISH products!
The Atom smasher deluxe - with a an extra pocket - the thing will out live you if you never haul it but it is a mini haul bag and meant to be hauled and will survive walls for ten years and hundreds of miles.

The three packs that Cold Cold World - turns out the best life time warranty and a custom shop.
They and

Mystery Ranch
( original Dana of Dana designs bomb pack )will make a pack with your choice of extras.

Then from Texas :
Range Ready

Also the classic Alpinist is still made by WILD THINGS but you have to look in the military or tactical
Department. So it is big $$, I think,

Yeah I'm pack obsessed!

I also bought a used DOLT pack from a vintage gear sight.
A totally soft bag that has a thin removable Ensolite type back pad to sit on It is bigger than the BD Stone 45, which is to bad because I had hoped to use it as a stuff sac to protect the zipper from my gear and hopefully delay the zipper from leaking. It is the exact same design as the muira 45L by Arc'Teryx; a full zipper clam shell. . . .but lighter weight and 40 years old !
The thing is mint and cost 12 bucks, shipping included.

The lack of a double lining and a fully Velcro lined storm flap protecting the zipper like a 20 yr old North Face that is the exact same design - single layer but with an exterior storm flap, that goes to the bottom of the pack and stops stuff from oozing spilling out makes it superior to the BD ST 45.

50L for alpine flexibility and for the new longer ropes plus food first aid kit, a head lamp liquids, and layers, even a bivy sac if the top expands. The ability if not the need to take everything every time you go out is a nice thing to grow out of as you get your kit dialed in you can start to pack less, and have the room to spare.
full strength loops and grab straps, removable useable back supports that allow one to strip the pack down in weight and size ( a removable top pocket that the BD does have)
Fully lined with a bright interior to help see the contents in low light.

All things that are found on many older packs.
This generation of packs seems to be about churning New climbers.
Leading you with flashy marketing to buy a two year pack.
The term Planned obsolescence, the built-in, low quality that will make you spend more money.

Ranting

yes

but I have never been so disappointed in a pack made by a climbing company.
That has had a reputation of high quality service and performance.

I am still trying to make it work but was told it is not a "climbing pack" by black diamond.

While I'm sure all your black diamond packs - the duffel and. . . .there are others
the BD company makes a lot of packs!
The Creek 50 hybrid haul bag ? that has no compression straps on the sides?,
These back packs look good in the flashy video
but suck at the crag compared to all of the other choices.
In my opinion. (I have been climbing from the age of four! Almost 40 years )
I did not want or need a FISH ATOM SMASHER DELUXE . . .
and was going with THE name brand .
what I thought was top of the line under 2 bills.
but I was so wrong that it has me going to extremes.
I have a company that will do after market work for $$ so in a few months, when I need an alpine sized pack, I hope to have the BD Stone 45 fixed with a full strength grab loop -
TOOL TUBES that sinch down to reduce wear from sharp tools
and crampon patches on the hood and between the tubes, all that and an interior Velcro lined three inch wide storm flap (although the zipper only goes 3/4 of the needed length) will cost what a pack from Fish or Cold Cold World would .

^Deluxe Atom Smasher :-)

I've had a couple of 45-50 liter packs that make for good crag bags. I can fit a double rack and plenty of alpine and sport draws plus food, shoes, and extra clothes inside the bag. I strap the rope across the top of my bag and then my partner doesn't really need to carry anything. It works out well for her. ;)

I like all of my stuff to be IN the bag as opposed to hooked ON the bag (with the exception of my water bottles and maybe my shoes). For me, with a 70 m rope, shoes, harness, chalk bag, draws, lunch, rain jacket and or sweater, and miscellaneous little stuff I find a 50 L is about right.

I had the Arcteryx Miura 50 L but really didn't like the way it carried. However, it was super durable and packed/unpacked well. Maybe I had the wrong size; most people seem to love them but you can find a used one around occasionally.

I'm back to an older, smaller pack until I pick up a Trango Crag pack. Not as refined as the Arcteryx, but seems to fit me better and I've heard a lot of good things about it, including the price.

I've been checking out new packs recently and picked up a 40L to compare to what I have used a 33L and smaller. 40-50 still seems huge. 50L is a a multi night backpacking size. So here's my $0.02. Moosejaw, gear express and steep and cheap all have awesome deals on packs. I just changed to a medium frame on my Black diamond axis 33L. Fits my shoes, harness, chalk bag, 20 cams, set of nuts, extra biners, 10 quick draws, 10 alpine draws, webbing, warm layer, water and food with room. It also has a cool flip out helmet holder. Picture a miniature pack cover that captures just your helmet. And can accommodate a rope on top of need be. Anyway, that's plenty of room. It does NOT fit the rope inside. BUT, your partner has nothing to carry but shoes, harness, chalk...and the ROPE. Isn't it fair the other guy carries the rope?

Edit: Not plugging the Axis pack just 30-35L size.

Mountain Equipment Coop AlpineLite Line.

Got the 35L and I fit a complete double rack and a 70m rope.
Very resistant and practical.

SRB25 wrote:40-50 still seems huge... Not plugging the Axis pack just 30-35L size.

I have the opposite experience, although part of this is in due to different designs and accuracy of the stated size. I.e. a clam shell top 35l pack is not equal to a 35l with an extendable spindrift collar.

I have had an opposite experience from you. I previously had a BD Demon 32 that was just too small for trad cragging, and even long days of sport cragging with lots of water/food. I upgraded to a Miura 50 (old style) and it is still small to try to put everything inside for a whole day (helmet, full rack, rope, 3-4L water, shoes, harness, food, etc). I just can't see owning a "crag bag" less than 50-55l. If you are tall, 60 is probably good.

I don't disagree. 50+ have their place too. It all depends on the individual needs and type of excursions one does. Design does make a difference as well. Patagonia makes a back panel between should straps that zips open which is pretty unique.
I also don't put the rope inside the pack which frees up a ton of space. It seems whoever is carrying the pack/gear your partner carries the rope. And some people just bring more stuff, some less.