A little whining about draws removed from Sinopia

eli poss wrote: And what if you can't rap in from the top and hang your draws beforehand? Does that mean it's not sport climbing? But the above poster was right, I shouldn't impose my opinion on others. I'll try to refrain from doing so in the future.

Nope, that's what a rope gun or a stick clip are for.

eli poss wrote: It could be that my ethics are just super traditional because I learned to trad climb in the south, but I'd consider this to be cheating and I would either avoid the route or TR it instead. Same thing with stick clipping. Don't bring the rock down to your level; instead ascend to the level of the rock. What if I did place the bolt? And yeah there is pink pointing in sport climbing. as I said earlier, it may not make a difference to you but I can think of at least 5 climbs that are significantly easier with pre-hung draws for me, at least 2 of which I had to hang and downclimb before commiting to making the crux move so I could clip the draw.

I think it's great you have you own personal standard. But don't expect anyone else to give a shit when you make fun of them for climbing however they want.

BTW, I think you're a little confused about "traditional" climbing. If you were adhering to the traditional style (not ethic) of climbing, you would not hang before making the moves. If you fell or hung, you'd lower to the ground, pull the rope, and try again.

csproul wrote: I think it's great you have you own personal standard. But don't expect anyone else to give a shit when you make fun of them for climbing however they want. BTW, I think you're a little confused about "traditional" climbing. If you were adhering to the traditional style (not ethic) of climbing, you would not hang before making the moves. If you fell or hung, you'd lower to the ground, pull the rope, and try again.

Not quite, you'd lower and toprope through your highest piece and lead past it. Even if this eventually resulted in a TR ascent, you'd be credited with the FA. That is the old school traditional yo-yo.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Not quite, you'd lower and toprope through your highest piece and lead past it. Even if this eventually resulted in a TR ascent, you'd be credited with the FA. That is the old school traditional yo-yo.

Debatable, but besides the point. Whichever, it is clear whatever Eli is doing is not "Traditional"

Let's get the trad authority, Healyje...he'll set this straight;)

csproul wrote: Let's get the trad authority, Healyje...he'll set this straight;)

X-rated topropes?

this reminds me of the old saying; "hire a teenager while they still know everything".

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Not quite, you'd lower and toprope through your highest piece and lead past it. Even if this eventually resulted in a TR ascent, you'd be credited with the FA. That is the old school traditional yo-yo.

ahhh, the old 'slingshot' approach. nothing like walking by at the right time and taking that last 10 feet to gloryville!

eli poss wrote:3 It may not make a difference to you, as somebody who is short with a very short reach, I sometimes have to make the move to clip the bolt that protects the move. this means that the difference in pink pointing and red pointing can be huge. As such, pink pointing ruins the experience for me.

No, it gives you the same experience as the person who equipped the route. Sport routes aren't supposed to be dangerous. If you can't reach a critical clip, stick clip it, use a stiffy, rap and clip a long draw, whatever works.
As kennoyce pointed out, there is no such thing as a pink-point in sport climbing.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: X-rated topropes?

Sounds kinky.. I like it!

DON'T TAKE SOMEONE'S PROJECT DRAWS UNLESS THEY ARE IN BAD SHAPE AND YOU ARE REPLACING THEM !!!

Agreed!

Trad dad here (more like 2nd cousin I spose) Some of you may remember that you weren't supposed to feel holds or even look at the moves after a "yo"...

There was also this troubling issue, at least in my neck of the woods...at least as heated as "stance only v. hooks"

https://youtu.be/iAHJCPoWCC8

Edit: Pinkos...

R.Walters wrote:purely theory as of now but validation is in process: and eli - food for thought:

I use to say this about Sailors only instead of confidence it was morale.

"I know my first post was pretty harsh and I apologize for the manner in which I delivered the message."

Dude, you better.

You're in the presence of 5.12 sport climbers.

Do you think this is a f*cking game?!??!?

Jon W wrote: my point about rationalization to justify bad actions. I have more than some and less than others. By your moral compass, someone could be justified in stealing from me because they need it. I really don't like big corps at all, but stealing is... stealing. After all these years of not posting here much, I can't believe I let my self get pulled into this discussion. Later

Amen brother! If only the rest of country had some common sense left.

This is the Nobel they won

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ig_Nobel_Prize