A little whining about draws removed from Sinopia

Mathias wrote: The only reason I can see to make comments about how taking someone's project draws is stealing, is to educate anyone reading this who doesn't already know that. And that's been done many times over in this thread.

Yes, and let me go a bit further...

According to the description, it was certainly two climbers who took the draws. No one else would have the skills and gear to do it.

As members of the climbing community we should be promoting appropriate behavior among ourselves, and denouncing things like theft in all its forms. Peer pressure is a powerful thing.

And it's been proven, over and over, that the climbing community is small and highly interconnected. I'm sure someone on MP knows the two who stole the draws. It would be a good thing if the draws were anonymously returned to their owner.

eli poss wrote:I will however, give you shit for pre-placing gear, especially if the route is rated G or PG. And I've earned the right to do that by leading red book...

1. we're talking about project draws on a sport climb
2. what does it matter to you in what style someone climbs a route?

Marc801 wrote: 1. we're talking about project draws on a sport climb 2. what does it matter to you in what style someone climbs a route?

Cut him some slack. After all, he's a bold 19 year old that's led a scary 5.9 somewhere in CO. He can totally make fun of you for pinkpointing.

Marc801 wrote: 1. we're talking about project draws on a sport climb 2. what does it matter to you in what style someone climbs a route?

1 it was a tangent
2 because it, in my opinion gives rock climbers a bad name. I once watched a video shot a T-wall of a guy leading with pre-placed gear, because I wanted to show my friends how aesthetic the cliff is. I didn't want to give them the idea that this is climbing but, unfortunately, it was the best style i could find in a video at the time.
3 It may not make a difference to you, as somebody who is short with a very short reach, I sometimes have to make the move to clip the bolt that protects the move. this means that the difference in pink pointing and red pointing can be huge. As such, pink pointing ruins the experience for me.

eli poss wrote: 1 it was a tangent 2 because it, in my opinion gives rock climbers a bad name. I once watched a video shot a T-wall of a guy leading with pre-placed gear, because I wanted to show my friends how aesthetic the cliff is. I didn't want to give them the idea that this is climbing but, unfortunately, it was the best style i could find in a video at the time. 3 It may not make a difference to you, as somebody who is short with a very short reach, I sometimes have to make the move to clip the bolt that protects the move. this means that the difference in pink pointing and red pointing can be huge. As such, pink pointing ruins the experience for me.

This thread is talking about a sport climb, there's no such thing as a pink point in sport climbing, you didn't place the bolt so you don't need to place the draw.

@ eli, dude you need to go make a stiffy. Piece of PVC pipe around the sling on an alpine draw, duct tape it to the bolt side biner. Then you can clip from the stance. Before you rag on me for this weakass tactic consider that I've heard Lynn hill has a huge one.

Eric Chabot wrote:@ eli, dude you need to go make a stiffy. Piece of PVC pipe around the sling on an alpine draw, duct tape it to the bolt side biner. Then you can clip from the stance. Before you rag on me for this weakass tactic consider that I've heard Lynn hill has a huge one.

It could be that my ethics are just super traditional because I learned to trad climb in the south, but I'd consider this to be cheating and I would either avoid the route or TR it instead. Same thing with stick clipping.

Don't bring the rock down to your level; instead ascend to the level of the rock.

kennoyce wrote: This thread is talking about a sport climb, there's no such thing as a pink point in sport climbing, you didn't place the bolt so you don't need to place the draw.

What if I did place the bolt?

And yeah there is pink pointing in sport climbing. as I said earlier, it may not make a difference to you but I can think of at least 5 climbs that are significantly easier with pre-hung draws for me, at least 2 of which I had to hang and downclimb before commiting to making the crux move so I could clip the draw.

eli poss wrote: It could be that my ethics are just super traditional because I learned to trad climb in the south

Sorry kid. You are 19; you don't have traditional ethics...you are just blindly following some rules w/o understanding the reason behind it.

The only pink pointing you should be worried about Eli, is pulling your thumb out of your ass. God help us all if this is the future of climbing...

reboot wrote: Sorry kid. You are 19; you don't have traditional ethics...you are just blindly following some rules w/o understanding the reason behind it.

Really? So what's the magical age requirement to support and follow a traditional ethic?

Ari Kantola wrote:The only pink pointing you should be worried about Eli, is pulling your thumb out of your ass. God help us all if this is the future of climbing...

Haha, I take it out to climb at least, which does happen at least once a day. And it's better than having a 30' pole up my ass, like some people in Durango do.

eli poss wrote: It could be that my ethics are just super traditional because I learned to trad climb in the south, but I'd consider this to be cheating and I would either avoid the route or TR it instead. Same thing with stick clipping. Don't bring the rock down to your level; instead ascend to the level of the rock. What if I did place the bolt? And yeah there is pink pointing in sport climbing. as I said earlier, it may not make a difference to you but I can think of at least 5 climbs that are significantly easier with pre-hung draws for me, at least 2 of which I had to hang and downclimb before commiting to making the crux move so I could clip the draw.

No, there is no such thing as a pink point in sport climbing, this argument was over back when you were still in diapers. Sport climbing is about the movement, not the protection. If the crux of a sport route is clipping the bolt, you're doing it wrong.

kennoyce wrote: If the crux of a sport route is clipping the bolt, you're doing it wrong.

Do you have any idea how close minded this is? Do you need me to make a list of routes on which I have to make the crux move to reach the bolt and then go out and photograph me not reaching the bolt from the stance?

nothing like a "johnny come lately" noob trying to tell everyone else how it is all done.

Eli, go climb, have fun and don't worry about what everyone is doing.

Hold on. My popcorn is ready!

.... Ok, continue!

eli poss wrote: So what's the magical age requirement to support and follow a traditional ethic?

You are born too late...the climbing world has evolved and nobody follows traditional ethics anymore. People who refuses to join the current world by in-large follow some arbitrary point in the evolution process and call that their traditional ethics, but fail to realize there is no set definition for traditional ethics...going all the way back w/o modern invention is neither safe nor enjoyable.

eli poss wrote: Really? So what's the magical age requirement to support and follow a traditional ethic?

I don't know the age. I do know you're not there yet. You're barely past your third trimester, the opinion of a fetus isn't very valuable.

So here's the thing about being 19 and having testicles, you think you're right. All the god damn time. Every dude on this forum telling you that you're wrong has been 19 and been right about everything always so maybe you should listen to them.

I cut my teeth in an area more trad than your little south, once I got around to other places for a decade or two, I didn't feel the need to impose my high horse on others.

I don't know why I or anyone else bothers though, since you'll be right until the day you realize you're wrong. That's probably more than 10 years from now though.

eli poss wrote: Do you have any idea how close minded this is? Do you need me to make a list of routes on which I have to make the crux move to reach the bolt and then go out and photograph me not reaching the bolt from the stance?

No you don't, because in sport climbing, you should already have the draw hanging if you are at your limit. It doesn't matter if you can't reach the bolt from the stance, since you pre-hang the draw, and if you can't reach that draw, you use a longer draw or a second extension draw (lather, rinse, repeat) until you can reach it from the correct clipping hold.

reboot wrote: You are born too late...the climbing world has evolved and nobody follows traditional ethics anymore. People who refuses to join the current world by in-large follow some arbitrary point in the evolution process and call that their traditional ethics, but fail to realize there is no set definition for traditional ethics...going all the way back w/o modern invention is neither safe nor enjoyable.

Much more ESL than your usual. Did you build a Sven algorithm into your translation software?

kennoyce wrote: No you don't, because in sport climbing, you should already have the draw hanging if you are at your limit. It doesn't matter if you can't reach the bolt from the stance, since you pre-hang the draw, and if you can't reach that draw, you use a longer draw or a second extension draw (lather, rinse, repeat) until you can reach it from the correct clipping hold.

And what if you can't rap in from the top and hang your draws beforehand? Does that mean it's not sport climbing? But the above poster was right, I shouldn't impose my opinion on others. I'll try to refrain from doing so in the future.

highaltitudeflatulentexpulsion wrote: Much more ESL than your usual. Did you build a Sven algorithm into your translation software?

Now that I have a piece of paper stating that I've wasted my time piling higher and deeper, and started working at a Japanese company, I can let my Engrish slip a bit.