Open loop or closed loop for cordollette?

I see CMac on supertopo recommending the open loop system of cordollette. With Tech cord this seems like a great idea, but I never see anyone utilize their cordollette on multipitch anchors this way... Am I missing something. I.E. Double fisherman and a closed loop vs. 2-figure 8's on a bight(open loop)?

I tie my cordalette into a loop with 2 over hand on a bights so that I can use it as a loop, or easily untie them and use it in other configurations. Kind of the best of both worlds.

I had always used a 25 foot piece of open Sterling powerCord for all my multi-pitch and big-wall anchors. Then we started leading with a 70M rope now usually we just pull up some slack and equalize with a figure eight and alpine butterfly's way easier to untie then a weighted cord.

Walmongr...I can see utilizing that on big wall anchors, but you never really have the pull on the anchors equalized, right? Where as leading multipitch, wouldn't you want to use the cordollette when you're dealing with equalizing gear (vs equalizing bolted anchors)?? Tying an eight and adding two butterfly's incorporates all the bolts, but it doesn't truly equalize them?? Right??? I might be missing something, or over analyzing this though.

It depends on what the environment calls for.

Sometimes you may need to keep it open for extra length. Sometimes you may be just fine with it as a closed loop.

If you can complete your anchor with the cord as a closed loop you can also complete it with the cord open, but not always in the reverse.

Either way, equalization is something that should be a little lower on your list of wants in an anchor, for it is almost impossible to achieve. Now, distributing the load across your pieces/bolts is more realistic.

Make sure your pro/bolt is sound and work the best you can on constructing your anchor with each piece being as solid as possible. The placement of your pro/bolt will determine what amount of cord you need.

If you leave it open, make sure your master point knot closes the loop with both tails. Some tie the tails after the master point and close the cord again anyway.

It can be handy not to have to untie a loop all the time, but everyone has their preference.

I would also recommend using a triple fisherman to close a tech cord loop.

If I am using bolted anchors usually they are pretty close to each other. Maybe a few feet apart. Maybe straight across or slightly off set.. I will just tie a double figure 8 which you can equalize then just thread the redirect for the belay through a draw connected through both loops right above the knot. If on gear and not even I would do the same thing and just extend with slings to get close and do a double 8's.. The 8 and butterfly you can load even if weighting the rope while jugging. Mark Hudon has a few good pics of a belay(fixed rope) with this method. I am not opposed to cord I always just hated untying and winding it back up before I left the anchor.

I haven't found any disadvantage to using an open cordelette with a loop on each end.

I have found a few to using a close loop. It's less versatile in terms of length, far spaced placements, and ability to go through gaps between natural anchors (like around a boulder where another boulder is leaning again it). And that knot on a closed loop doesn't always stay where I want it when equalizing the strands before tying the master point, so it can get fiddly.

^^ the last point is why I use an open system most of the time. The double fisherman-dilemma requires a little more thought.

That said, if there are a lot of two or more bolt anchors (e.g., the gunk), I keep it as a closed system. I fold the loop in half, so there are four strands, and put two overhand knots in the end. These get clipped to bolted anchors. My anchor master point gets clipped to two strands, which is redundant and if one bolt fails, the closed system holds the masterpoint. It self-equalizes. The other two strands serve as a bench for gear exchange. This system is very efficient for bolted anchors, and If I need a natural anchor, I undo the overhand knots and use a standard closed loop anchor system.

Regarding the open cordelette with a loop on each end - is there any problem with clipping both loops to one piece and tying the anchor as if it was a closed loop? As in a scenario where the points are close enough for each leg to be doubled as with a normal closed loop.

I like the open cord...but not enough to bring it climbing in many years. I just use the rope and or some other piece of gear, draws, runners, etc. I have come to dislike specialized pieces of gear and extra weight.

mountainproject.com/v/climb…

James T wrote:Regarding the open cordelette with a loop on each end - is there any problem with clipping both loops to one piece and tying the anchor as if it was a closed loop? As in a scenario where the points are close enough for each leg to be doubled as with a normal closed loop.

I haven't found any issues with this.

I prefer the open loop with eights on each end (I've heard it called a rabbit-ear cordelette), but I'm somewhat concerned that single-strand legs of an anchor are lower strength and higher stretch. A 3-piece anchor with a closed-loop cordelette will have two strands to each piece. An anchor with a rabbit-ear cordelette with each end clipped to different pieces will have one leg with two strands and two legs with one strand.

What do people think about the idea of a single (knotted) ~12kN strand of 7mm nylon cord as an anchor leg?

edit - I guess this was covered in the linked thread that I missed, conclusion being: nobody cares and I should carry a longer closed loop or none at all.

I switched from closed loop to open loop and haven't looked back.

mountainproject.com/v/corde…

Once you go open, you never... uh... go gropin'? Get frozen? Hulk Hogan?

pokey wrote:I prefer the open loop with eights on each end (I've heard it called a rabbit-ear cordelette), but I'm somewhat concerned that single-strand legs of an anchor are lower strength and higher stretch. A 3-piece anchor with a closed-loop cordelette will have two strands to each piece. An anchor with a rabbit-ear cordelette with each end clipped to different pieces will have one leg with two strands and two legs with one strand. What do people think about the idea of a single (knotted) ~12kN strand of 7mm nylon cord as an anchor leg? edit - I guess this was covered in the linked thread that I missed, conclusion being: nobody cares and I should carry a longer closed loop or none at all.

If it's a 3 piece anchor that you could do with a close loop, you can do it with the open cordelette just as safely. Put both figure eight loops on your first piece, and then treat the system as a closed loop. No single strands neccesary. In situations when I use it with single strands, the pieces are either spread further apart, or I am using 4 pieces instead of 3.