Black Diamond Belay Patent

I heard some rumors about a new auto locking belay device and found the patent page.
google.com/patents/US201402…
Patent published last September

It resembles a Grigri, but on the camming piece there is a pulley with a centripetal clutch, so at climbing and paying out slack rope speeds the pulley runs freely. When the rope accelerates too fast the pulley locks and the device is more likely to lock.

The stated goal is to create a device that doesn't require the user to override the locking mechanism when the climber needs slack. Obviously there's no way to tell if it works yet, but it's interesting to see the insides.

Its been in use for at least the last 6 months. Haven't had a chance to try it personally.

Saw a BD employee climbing with one of these last summer. It looked like a GriGr but I didn't get a good look at it because he quickly put it away and didn't have much to say about it. A recent BD press release for Spring 2016 mentions new belay devices, so maybe we will be seeing it soon.

has anybody heard any news about this? the last time i looked at it was in may and it looked really interesting, possibly a combo of gri and mini-trax which i would really be interested in.

I wonder if it will work as a lead solo device

Looks awesome! The wheel looks like it will really decrease the drag of taking in rope. Also, I wonder what the smallest rope diameter it can handle.

The rumor mill told me it's generally heavier/clunkier than a grigri. I can't remember where I heard that, but hopefully it'll be improved past that point by release. I've met at least two people who really liked their new Camp grigri like thingamagig - but holy molly they are pricey!

The BD one is a little bigger then the grigri 1 was. It also looked to have terrible ergonomics and a very blocky design. I didn't get to play with it, it was just some of the engineers "testing" it on a weekend. They did how ever talk about some features that were going to be removed or changed, so I don't know what the final product will be like, but i'm guessing it won't be out till at least 2017.

Jon Rhoderick wrote:It resembles a Grigri...

It's basically a rip-off / tweak of the Edelrid Eddy design with the clamshell rotating up instead of down and has little in common with a grigri.

Except there is a pulley in there, the eddy having a push button keeping the plates closed, and that it pops locked and pops unlocked. They both clamp on the belay side instead of the lead side like a grigri, seems like comparing the BD to either is probably not that helpful.

Again, just a rip-off / tweak to the Eddy with no functional improvement of any kind that I see. Having used the Eddy since it's inception I can state the pulley wheel on the BD is completely superfluous and is only there as a way for it to not be a part-for-part theft of the design as is the clamshell opening up. Doing away with the case button is also a net negative from my perspective and use of the Eddy as a rope-soloist - I don't want there to be any possibility for it to come off the rope by accident when it's off the biner.

So you've seen a single drawing of this device in a preliminary stage and you already have a judgement on what is superfluous and what is a rip off? Please

Yeah. Look, these aren't complicated devices and every aspect of the BD version is on display in that drawing. And given I've used an Eddy for a decade or so and know every aspect of it and its feel, I can state with confidence that the wheel is completely unnecessary to the rope feeding. they'll probably market the feature as reducing wear on the pivot-cam when the reality is my Eddy doesn't wear significantly at that spot.

But beyond the wheel along with the enlarged pivot-cam to accommodate it, lack of case lock and the upward case opening there is nothing different about the device - i.e. it's a complete rip-off with a couple of tweaks. The only original thought involved was coming up with a way around the Edelrid's patent.

And the eddy is a grigri with a couple of tweaks...

Rarely is climbing gear a true innovative leap. Most of it just tweaks on an existing design.

Thing is, couple of tweaks here, another there, over time improves gear on the whole. Or we'd all still be climbing with a bunch of non-locking ovals with noses that snag on everything, because everything else is just tweaks not worthy of our time.

Healyje wrote: And given I've used an Eddy for a decade or so and know every aspect of it and its feel, I can state with confidence that the wheel is completely unnecessary to the rope feeding. they'll probably market the feature as reducing wear on the pivot-cam when the reality is my Eddy doesn't wear significantly at that spot. But beyond the wheel along with the enlarged pivot-cam to accommodate it, lack of case lock and the upward case opening there is nothing different about the device - i.e. it's a complete rip-off with a couple of tweaks. The only original thought involved was coming up with a way around the Edelrid's patent.

So all the sudden you spend a bunch of time feeding out rope? I have a hard time seeing you as the follower on all the trad climbing you do, especially since you claim to solo much of the time.

JK- wrote:And the eddy is a grigri with a couple of tweaks... Rarely is climbing gear a true innovative leap. Most of it just tweaks on an existing design. Thing is, couple of tweaks here, another there, over time improves gear on the whole. Or we'd all still be climbing with a bunch of non-locking ovals with noses that snag on everything, because everything else is just tweaks not worthy of our time.

True statement.

Personally I have a hard time seeing BD put out a product like this that was a sucky rip-off. I would go as far to say that they wouldnt release it until it was possibly better than the worlds favorite auto locker.

My read of the market is that any belay device that demands truly oddball technique is doomed. The various "assisted braking" devices all have a small additional technique required to hold the device open when you need to, but otherwise are used just like a tube. The Eddy loads backwards (and weighs a ton), so no one uses it. The Cinch needs to be held in a unique way, so no one uses it. (That's the proverbial "no one", not literal, obviously a few people use them here and there, and they're still produced...) The Matik could potentially have succeeded if it weren't 200 friggin' dollars.

If the BD device works just like a Grigri (and from reading the patent, it does), solves the Grigri's major problem, and is price- and weight-competitive, then it'll be a huge success... if it ever sees the light of day, anyway.

T Roper wrote: So all the sudden you spend a bunch of time feeding out rope? I have a hard time seeing you as the follower on all the trad climbing you do, especially since you claim to solo much of the time.

Pretty sure Healyje lead rope solos with the Eddy, which certainly involves a lot of feeding out rope, so it would make sense that he would claim to know something about this.

Exactly. Feeding out rope and rapping is all I do with the Eddy and it feeds rope fine and with essentially no pivot-cam wear after years of use and a ton of mileage. I would never use it for belaying though and it semi-sucks for rapping, but it's superb for rope soloing.

And the Eddy is nothing like a grigri - doesn't operate remotely the same.

Healyje wrote:Exactly. Feeding out rope and rapping is all I do with the Eddy and it feeds rope fine and with essentially no pivot-cam wear after years of use and a ton of mileage. I would never use it for belaying though and it semi-sucks for rapping, but it's superb for rope soloing. And the Eddy is nothing like a grigri - doesn't operate remotely the same.

Yeah, exactly my point. Feeding rope for a leader(belaying) is what this BD product is being made for.

Has nobody thought that maybe the use of the pulley might be to make it smoother when belaying off the anchor?

IIRC, the pulley is actually a centrifugal clutch mechanism. Rolling when slow (feeding etc) locks when rapidly moving (fall)

It was briefly discussed on the Proj a while back. No clue the thread...

Duh. I RTFA and its right in the patent.