Grigri question

Old lady H wrote:Two questions: 1) the ones we were using looked, well, definitely used. Do they get cantankerous with age? Develop their own little quirks?

No. None that I have ever seen in over a dozen years using them properly. I have a friend who even has a first generation unit date stamped from ’91, the same year as the birth of the Internet (the FIRST year GriGri’s ever went into production). And he still presses it into use whenever someone has a fat rope.

That said, you CAN ruin the cam by wearing it down and grooving it out—even to the point of strongly reducing the unit’s braking power. (I’ve seen it with my own eyes.)

Most folks I see at the crags risk this, though it would take years and years of bad technique to show a result. They feather the handle when lowering someone, letting the GriGri take up most of the braking duty to slow a climber, instead of holding the handle wide-ass open and controlling with their brake hand. That’s no bueno! But again, it would really take years of heavy use to show why and how this damages a GriGri.

Still, my advice? Always check the cam of a borrowed GriGri to make sure there’s enough of it to pinch down on your rope.

Old lady H wrote: 2) while my hands and brain are still acquainted with the things, should I take the practice time I need to be reliable, in case some future partner wants a grigri belay?

I’m going to say “no” here, too. That you should not, alone, take practice time with the GriGri 2 (and it’s the 2 you should buy, not the original version). What you SHOULD do, if’n you’re asking (and you are asking) is a) start buying skinnier ropes (a 9.8 is as large as you reasonably want to go) and, more importantly, get a certified AMGA guide or at least someone with a whooooole lotta GriGri time and love under her belt to show you hands-on the nuances of how (and how NOT!) to use the device. To be sure, not how to lead while someone uses a GriGri, but how to effectively and efficiently lead belay with the GriGri itself. Why? Because GriGri’s are the shit—no two ways about it. I’ve taught dozens of people, beginners and old, as a guide and as a partner, how to use and use well a GriGri. And none of them have ever gone back to the ATC. Still, it does take a nuanced hand and some special, though not complicated, technique to win the day.

Oh…and it also helps heaps to climb with skinnier ropes. Forget what you read elsewhere, a 9.8 is as fat as you want to deal with at this level of climbing. Your GriGri will love you for it.

Back to your experience, I obviously don’t know what your gym instructors taught you—or what their level of certification was, but if you came away frustrated about locking the device up, it’s entirely likely they ignored that and just made sure you guys had the rudiments of how to use the thing down. After all, the focus of the class was on leading, right? Not on lead belaying. And that’s the thing of it, to be a hot GriGri belayer, you have to learn to finesse your feed. It’s not intuitive. And to learn how to use a GriGri well takes a practiced teacher, not just lots of practice. There’s more to it than just pulling enough slack out and minding the brake hand, like you would for an ATC-type device.

And that’s the other thing of it. The GriGri (1 or 2) isn’t just another belay device, one that would prolly be safer if that one-in-a-million rock konked you on the head. That’s now what makes a GriGri so effective. That’s not where a GriGri shines. That’s not why you should learn to be highly proficient at using it.

It’s really an apples-to-oranges deal. Not all belaying is the same; not all climbs require the same level of finesse from their belayer. Lemme put it this way: If ALL a partner were ever gonna do is, say, climb up some slabby 5.8s or 9s, clip the chains—no falls, ever—and get lowered to the ground…well? Then yah, prolly an ATC or similar tube-style device might be fine. If that’s all they were ever going to do. Why? Because the demands on a belayer here are both minimal and simple. An ATC will do well enough.

But ANYtime you have ANY of the following, then a simple Pepsi challenge will prove the GriGri out:

• If a climber outmasses you by, say, 25% or more, or there is otherwise a good reason so suspect you’re going to get yanked up to the first bolt, or to the falling climber.
• If a climber is on crazy steep, probably overhanging terrain.
• If the terrain itself involves a lot of dicey runouts between bolts/placements where a fall is going to significantly impact the belayer.
• If a climber is projecting and going to take that agonizing, 37th whip on the same damn stopper move.
• If an exhausted climber needs/wants your help winching back up to her last piece/bolt.

Never mind the endless, non-recommended uses a GriGri has in solo and aid climbing, Any one of the above are enough to justify getting good with a GriGri. And you’ll start coming across these scenarios once you and your partners start climbing harder, more demanding routes. You’ll have partners taking bigger whips on more overhanging projects who are going to expect that you help them winch back up. All at once. And all of THAT means the demands on a belayer suddenly become more advanced and complex. You’re not just ‘catching’ climbers anymore. You’ve gotta lotta work to do.

The point: When you start belaying this kind of climbing, you’ll quickly discover that it isn’t the apples-to-apples same as climbing a straight-forward, one pitch 5.8 jugfest. You’ll discover first-hand why a GriGri is indispensable, not just preferable.

Again, it’s a show not tell kinda thing. And MOST of the time, if’n you’re going to continue taking classes, you’re going to be taking classes where they show you how to lead, not expressly to lead belay. Which is too damn bad—for everyone.

Anyways, like I say, get someone who knows and loves the GriGri and it’ll all become a different world for you. Promise.

R. Kelly Liggin

Thanks so much, top rope! You are correct, although the instructor stressed the importance of the brake hand on the rope, the gri was used exactly as you described, with it doing the friction work on the lower. Some in the class had a lot of trouble lowering smoothly, perhaps because of the brake hand not being active. Coming from an ATC, I used a combination and had no trouble at all lowering. My gri issues were all in trying to feed slack, so all the great input on this thread is really appreciated. I actually enjoy belaying, and I'm putting a lot of effort into it.

I did go on the AMGA site. Unfortunately, guides listed were 3, 4 and 6 hours from here, one way, so I'm guessing the only way I will be able to afford anyone is if they happen to come closer for a workshop or something.

In the meantime, I'll keep trying to learn as much as I can. Fortunately, there are a lot of gracious people like you who have been forgiving of my newness and generous with help.

Thanks again!

Top Rope Hero wrote: Most folks I see at the crags risk this, though it would take years and years of bad technique to show a result. They feather the handle when lowering someone, letting the GriGri take up most of the braking duty to slow a climber, instead of holding the handle wide-ass open and controlling with their brake hand. That’s no bueno! But again, it would really take years of heavy use to show why and how this damages a GriGri.

the grigri wide open doesnt have as much friction as an ATC .. petzl says "the handle helps manage the speed of the descent, but only the brake hand" etc ...

theres been incidents on MP of folks not being able to control the rope with the handle pulled open ... in fact thats the reason why camp came out with an "anti panic" device for its matik

the reality is that almost everyone will use some combination of the brake hand and friction controlled by the lever

while this does wear out the cam a bit faster, its probably "safer" than just yanking the thing wide open

remember that the grip strength in the general population is EXTREMELY variable ... test have shown anywhere from 47N to 400N+ grip strength

for more ranting on grigris and senseless MP arguments go here

mountainproject.com/v/anoth…

;)

bearbreeder wrote: the grigri wide open doesnt have as much friction as an ATC .. petzl says "the handle helps manage the speed of the descent, but only the brake hand" etc ... theres been incidents on MP of folks not being able to control the rope with the handle pulled open ... in fact thats the reason why camp came out with an "anti panic" device for its matik the reality is that almost everyone will use some combination of the brake hand and friction controlled by the lever while this does wear out the cam a bit faster, its probably "safer" than just yanking the thing wide open remember that the grip strength in the general population is EXTREMELY variable ... test have shown anywhere from 47N to 400N+ grip strength for more ranting on grigris and senseless MP arguments go here mountainproject.com/v/anoth… ;)

Thanks, bearbreeder! Those "senseless MP arguments" are some of my favorites on here. When you, healyje, and others start hurling your encyclopedic knowledge at each other, that's when it's the best, just IMO. I do feel for your poor fence, though. : )