SE Trad Rack - What do you really need?

New trad climber looking for some info on necessary gear for climbing around the southeast. I live in Athens, GA and the closest crag to me is Mt. Yonah (less pocketed than Looking Glass) but will definitely make trips to N. Alabama and Tennessee to climb on the sandstone there. I've already gotten a decent amount of gear and would like some advice on how to proceed.

I'll be doing moderate routes as I'm new to the trad game (The Nose, Sundial, The Daddy, etc.)

So far my rack consists of

1x Set BD Camalot: #0.3-3
2x Sets Fixe Aliens: Black to Red
BD Stoppers: # 4-13
BD Hexes (Slung): #5-10

Should I double up on camalots or invest some mastercams to mix up the camming ranges? Are tricams a must? Offset cams? Any input greatly appreciated

I wouldn't buy master cams as you already have doubles in the smaller sizes. Personally I double up on camalots if you feel the need to buy something. Offsets won't be needed on 99% of trad routes so I'd hold off for a bit. A #4 c4 would probably be useful and some point. But with you current rack I'd just go climb a bunch and see what you wish you had more of.

General rack thoughts (not specific to SE):

-With 2 sets of Aliens, plus the smaller C4s, you have plenty of finger sized gear to climb almost anything that isn't in Indian Creek. No need for more. Getting Mastercams won't offer anything that the Aliens don't.

-Double up on the hand sizes in C4s: 0.75-2. Maybe a second #3. This is really the only addition that you "need" to make to have a complete standard rack.

-You don't need another 0.5 C4, since the red aliens cover that size.

-A #4 C4 might be useful, depending on where you climb.

-Tricams can be useful depending on where you climb, but honestly with all those aliens you can get away without them.

-Eventually, small nuts (Microstoppers, HB offsets, etc.) will become necessary, but as a new leader not quite yet.

-Similar for offsets. A good idea eventually, but no need just yet. You'll know when you need them.

-So, just fill out the set of C4s, and you'll be good to go for quite some time. It will be quite a long time before you need any additional gear.

Long time SE climber....specializing in TAG sandstone and WNC granite....

Base rack:

Set of DMM Alloy offsets.
Mastercams 00 thru black, plus Camalots 0.5 thru 3.
10 "trad draws".
10 quickdraws.

Add a #4 and a pink tricam later.

Eventually, to cover virtually all clean objectives, you'll want a double set of cams to #4 camalot, plus singles up to a #6.....if you are into that sort of thing....
Add a set of offset cams to about orange/red Metolius...or Aliens.....plus some more tricams and one more set of stoppers....tiny to large.

This is good for virtually anything up to and including big aid objectives (if you add some tiny stoppers, hooks, camhooks, etc.)....GLass Menagerie, Table Rock-SC, etc.

I hear there's some big rack requirements in the BSF too, as an example. But, bottom line....nationwide, the above should do 90% of all routes in the USA. Splitters and Wyoming offwidths aside.

doubles of .4-.75 C4's I found very useful on those routes you mentioned (nose,sundial,daddy)

Personally, I've found tricams to be invaluable at Yonah and western NC (namely LG and Table Rock). They lock into those horizontal pockets in places that can can be awkward or too narrow for a cam. It's glorious when you can pop a pink or red tricam into a two-finger pocket.

Seems like a great base rack. I'm sure you're aware that you are close to Tallulah Gorge as well. I'd be game to get on Digital Delight, The Diagonal, or Mescaline Daydream with you to test it out. Weekends this month are aesthetic water releases but weekdays are fair game.

Brandon Bell wrote:Personally, I've found tricams to be invaluable at Yonah and western NC (namely LG and Table Rock).

this goes for the rock in chattanooga too. get pink and red tri-cam and consider the small black one and brown one. also consider getting DMM alloy offset nuts. although it's only anecdotal, I found my partner's offsets to be more confidence inspiring than my equivalent sized BD stoppers, especially at T-wall and Leda.

Additionally, i found the orange and yellow mastercams/tcus to be the most useful cam at T-wall

Also, keep in mind that, at T-wall, the first 10 feet don't count for the grade and be wary of the grade 5.9+ ;)

Harrison Laird wrote:New trad climber looking for some info on necessary gear for climbing around the southeast. I live in Athens, GA and the closest crag to me is Mt. Yonah (less pocketed than Looking Glass) but will definitely make trips to N. Alabama and Tennessee to climb on the sandstone there. I've already gotten a decent amount of gear and would like some advice on how to proceed. I'll be doing moderate routes as I'm new to the trad game (The Nose, Sundial, The Daddy, etc.) So far my rack consists of 1x Set BD Camalot: #0.3-3 2x Sets Fixe Aliens: Black to Red BD Stoppers: # 4-13 BD Hexes (Slung): #5-10 Should I double up on camalots or invest some mastercams to mix up the camming ranges? Are tricams a must? Offset cams? Any input greatly appreciated

You already have a decent rack for most moderate climbs. If you really want to get a good rack buy some C4s #.75, #1, #2, & #4 plus a set of alloy offset nuts.
With this rack you'll be able to climb 95% of the lines anywhere. Except IC.

Sounds like a great rack for those climbs. It is only when you get into 5.10 and harder that things may start to get more specific. Personally, I would get rid of the hexes and get evo tricams from black to brown and get the purple and maybe light blue. It isn't mandatory, but they work well in flares and trad belays.

I 100% agree with Tom, which is quite rare. :P

Thanks for the replies. Based on what's been said I think I've got a pretty good idea of what my most pressing needs are.

I managed to snag a #4 and a #3 C4 as well as some DMM offsets on the cheap so I plan on just doubling up the rest of the C4s on down to .75 and rounding out with some tricams.

Does anybody have a preference on nylon vs dyneema tricams? My instinct is always to go with nylon if you won't be in the alpine b/c its dynamic.

Seems like most people down South aren't huge fans of hexes, and I can definitely see why around here, but they proved their worth big time out on Longs Peak this summer. I placed 3 decent size ones on the Cable Route. Those things are more solid than almost any other piece of gear when seated correctly. They'll probably just be on my rack for alpine stuff or places where I don't need doubles in cams.

Definitely looking for partners to get out and use this stuff. If you're ever in Georgia or have interest in doing some of these moderate routes, PM me and we can work it out.

You should take Will up on that offer. It's just about Tallulah weather and Will knows his way around up there. I predict an awesome day.

Chris Whisenhunt wrote:I 100% agree with Tom, which is quite rare. :P

Nice! Hopefully I can keep it up.

The tri-cam question, nylon versus dyneema. The EVO is only made in nylon, problem solved. Don't buy non-EVO tri-cams! Seriously, they are just a better tri-cam with no con's compared to non-EVO. Same sizes, one-handed placements, better setting, and lighter.

Don't double your rack in the same brand. Climbing in the SE, I have realized doubles in the same brand will not help you fill the gaps in sizes. The camalots are a great cam, but there are many unique placements due to width of placement or size that a BD may not work or be ideal. Personally, I like the metolius sizes as they fit right in between the BD sizes. The metolius sizes are actually very similar to tri-cam sizes. It may not matter yet, but the granite and quartzite around here can be very unique. Sometimes you need a specific size and brand to protect a spot on a climb where nothing else will fit or fit well enough that you would feel comfortable falling on. I'll be glad to name several climbs that fit into this realm.

The hexes work in the alpine, because the placements are often very large. It is rare on the SE faces that you will need anything bigger than a 3 camalot. The really small hexes can be good in the SE, but nuts and tri-cams are almost always more versatile. If you do carry hexes, make sure you hang them off the back of your pack when hiking in. I always get a chuckle hearing the cow bells coming up the trail. "I need more cow bell".

Well that definitely makes the tricam decision an easy one.

Tom,
I see what you mean by "filling in the gaps" with different brands. That was sort-of my original question. I have 2 C4's already on order (#4,3) that I got for a great deal (it seems like C4's are the go-to large cam for most people), but I feel like I definitely would like to mix the rest up.

Right now I'm still in need of everything from #.75 C4 to #2 C4. Would it be a good idea to fill the rest in with metolius cams (especially with updated 2015 mastercams coming out soon)? I don't think I really need anything below #2 in a metolius cam b/c I've got that range covered by the small C4's and Aliens.

I've been looking at this chart and it seems to make sense.

Metolis vs Camalot C4

Thanks again for the advice.

From #.75 C4 and up you want the C4's not the Metolius, unless your buying them specifically for the narrower head. In these larger ranges the narrow heads just add to instability than to usefulness. But there is always this one special case someone will mention.

If there is a gap it's between the .4-.5 C4 and the grey Alien covers that perfectly. BTW thats where the orange Mastercam fits. Maybe the black MC is useful between the .75-#1 C4 but I've never really found that gap had to fill.

Metolius, Alien, C3, X4, C4 5%-60% open

I still get a little thrill every time I wiggle in a Tricam. Does that make me weird?

Mark O'Neal wrote:I still get a little thrill every time I wiggle in a Tricam. Does that make me weird?

Same here. I don't care if it's weird I LOVE my tricams. After using them to aid my way out of a sticky situation while sport climbing, I almost always keep em on my harness

Mark O'Neal wrote:I still get a little thrill every time I wiggle in a Tricam. Does that make me weird?

No way Mark. I like the feeling when they bite after a hard tug.

As it has been said, there aren't too many big gaps in BD from .75 and up. I would suggest the black MC and purple 8 power cam. It is still worth having doubles of 1 and 2, with those metolius cams also. You don't need a second 3 or bigger. Most of the noticeable gaps in BD are from purple c3 to .75. That chart isn't my favorite representation of the gaps, because who wants to fall on a near tipped out cam. When I am placing a save my butt piece, it is typically closer to the overcammed position. This should be mandatory on softer/flakey stone.

Ah, yes....rack salad.

See...having owned and climbed on C3s, Aliens, TCUs, MasterCams, and Offset Aliens and Mastercams....plus the standard issue C4s, even larger Wild Country for a while....I do agree that the variations/gaps must be addressed in the smaller sizes; say up to 0.75, per Tom. And in familiarizing oneself with a variety of small gear, you have developed a special skill few master....

That would be the ability to totally confuse your partners when you pull out a mishmash of brands/colors/sizes for a simple cragging day. I find it particularly funny to be the guy bringing the rack along on a trip with A: a newer climber or B: a brand loyalist ("I only climb on Metolius, because...").

Such a rack might look something like this:

00 C3, 0 Mastercam, blue Alien, blue/green Alien, green Alien, yellow Mastercam, yellow/orange Mastercam, 0.4 Camalot, 0.5 Camalot x2, 0.75 Camalot x2, 1 Camalot x2, 2 Camalot, 3.5 Wild Country, 3 Camalot, 4 Camalot.

Utter confusion usually ensues. Just blame it on the "gaps".

Metolius IS life though.