Advice for first time trad?

Guy Keesee wrote: Smile and crack jokes.... this is the most fun you can have with your pants on, remember there is no place that you would rather be right now.

a good attitude is the single most attractive attribute in a climber partner. imo, it will get you further than paying for gas and food. you are going to fuck up at some point get yourself into a mini-epic. having a good attitude can be the difference between never climbing with that partner again or having a story to tell around the camp fire

I live in SW PA. I've been climbing with my one friend but lately he's been working almost every day. If anyone would be willing to mentor me, it would be greatly appreciated. I will pay for gas and food, and if need be I'll pay for your help. I'm really eager to learn and I don't give up easily. Also, thanks again for all the good advice.

rgold wrote: I think a day or two with a certified guide is the best way to get started.

this^^^
Head down to Seneca and spend your money here instead of on a rack.

Seneca Mountain Guides-trad fundamentals

Db5504 wrote:Any suggestions on a good rack (if possible in the $100-$150 range)?

Almost impossible in the $100-$150 range.

As soon as you get in cams (spring-loaded camming devices), you're looking at $40-$100 per piece. So, for a budget rack, you'd want to avoid cams.

A set of nuts from small to moderate sized.
A set of tri-cams from moderate (black or pink) to biggish (maybe the big white).

That's going to, I would guess, give you about the best coverage for the budget price. If you can find any of it 2nd-hand (and in good shape), that will save some money. Nuts & tricams 2nd-hand are probably a better bet if you can't inspect the gear than cams -- fewer moving parts, less to get screwed up.

I'm assuming you already have a set of sport draws. You'll also want to grab a few shoulder-length (120cm) slings, and repurpose some of the 'biners from those sport draws to make trad draws. And, if your sport draws are long and floppy (rather than short and stiff) this will be better for slinging trad gear.

Hey Db, if you're interested in meeting up in Annapolis Rocks (Maryland) sometime, I'd be happy to help you get started. It'd be a little bit of a hike for you from SW Pennsylvania, but not too bad (depending where exactly you're coming from). There's a lot of 5.easy there great for first leads.

In real estate its location , location, location. In trad climbing it's safety, safety , safety. If you climb with someone who disagrees with that idea find a new partner

I don't know if this is beaten to death yet, but my $.02.
When i was new to trad, i went to Yosemite Valley. Hey, i could Boulder v3/4, no worries about a 5.8, right? SO after freaking on Bishops Terrace (5.8), sitting on the top, up comes an old Yos. Guide, who asks this very pertinent, and life changing (not meaning to be melodramatic, but it did change my life) question.
What do you follow or toprope?
5.11 says i.
What do you lead? he asks
5.8 says i.
"And the difference is...you need to learn to trust your gear, how gear works, what gear works, and why. Get down from here, go over to Church Bowl Tree (a 10.b line right next to where we were) and start aiding, up and down".
And within a month i was leading 10's.
Learn how to trust your gear, which gear works and why. Aid climb, asses you gear. Heck you can do it on toprope, minimizing the risk, (and fun).
And don't waste limited resources on Guides, you can learn more in a couple of days with a patient mentor. And still have the $$ for gear.
Another trick is to find a crag with a lot of cracks which reach the ground and play the 10 pieces in a minute game. You learn a lot just putting in gear.

Andrew G.-
Thanks for the offer! Maybe in October (I have a sister going to college in Gettysburg, so possibly when I visit her). Hopefully I'll have a little more built up in the way of a rack so I won't have to mooch off of you. Again, thank you, and I'll get in touch sooner to a possible date.

Db5504 wrote:Thanks! And in regards to reading up, that's the reason I have a b+ in History class haha

Watch all of Mike Barter's Videos on Youtube. They're very helpful and better than reading! Freedom of the Hills is helpful too.

I started out by following my more experienced wife on many trad routes and looked at all her placements. Next, I placed lots of gear on the ground and had her critique them. Next, I started doing mock leads with a backup TR, yarded on the gear, and had my wife and friends critique the placements. Once you get to the point of actually leading, have your climbing partner/mentor critique all your placements and make sure you are doing everything exactly right. Start with very easy routes. I've been leading for 8ish months now and I often ask my wife to still critique my placements, so it's an on going process.

Db5504 wrote:Andrew G.- Thanks for the offer! Maybe in October (I have a sister going to college in Gettysburg, so possibly when I visit her). Hopefully I'll have a little more built up in the way of a rack so I won't have to mooch off of you. Again, thank you, and I'll get in touch sooner to a possible date.

Sounds good man, hit me up with a message if you want to set something up.

Muscrat wrote:I don't know if this is beaten to death yet, but my $.02. When i was new to trad, i went to Yosemite Valley. Hey, i could Boulder v3/4, no worries about a 5.8, right? SO after freaking on Bishops Terrace (5.8), sitting on the top, up comes an old Yos. Guide, who asks this very pertinent, and life changing (not meaning to be melodramatic, but it did change my life) question. What do you follow or toprope? 5.11 says i. What do you lead? he asks 5.8 says i. "And the difference is...you need to learn to trust your gear, how gear works, what gear works, and why. Get down from here, go over to Church Bowl Tree (a 10.b line right next to where we were) and start aiding, up and down". And within a month i was leading 10's. Learn how to trust your gear, which gear works and why. Aid climb, asses you gear. Heck you can do it on toprope, minimizing the risk, (and fun). And don't waste limited resources on Guides, you can learn more in a couple of days with a patient mentor. And still have the $$ for gear. Another trick is to find a crag with a lot of cracks which reach the ground and play the 10 pieces in a minute game. You learn a lot just putting in gear.

Did you do some sort of solo lead, or did you have a partner bealying you whilst aiding yourself up the wall?

Thanks!

Muscrat wrote: SO...up comes an old Yos. Guide, who asks this very pertinent, and life changing (not meaning to be melodramatic, but it did change my life) question.

Muscrat wrote: And don't waste limited resources on Guides...

No, just hope you'll get life-changing advice from one for free.

rgold wrote: No, just hope you'll get life-changing advice from one for free.

Yeah, the irony is rich.

rgold wrote: No, just hope you'll get life-changing advice from one for free.

^^1++
You know that is really interesting....had not thought of it, good call.
Two of the biggest game changers, no 3 of the biggest, came from Guides. One in Yosemite and the other 2 in Smith. And yes, free. Just happened to be in the right place at the right time. Helped me break barriers, which a lot of climbing is about breaking barriers, and not bones.
And what i meant is not that guides are not worth the $$. I said limited resources. I assumed (yeah yeah, ass-u-ME) that we were talking choice$.
Spend enough time at he crag....something will fall in your lap.
Or head, wear a helmet!

dylan grabowski wrote: Did you do some sort of solo lead, or did you have a partner bealying you whilst aiding yourself up the wall? Thanks!

OH no, a very attentive belayer. Who also took the advice, and is now leading hard 12 trad. And as i posted previous, not to in any way denigrate guides, They work way to hard for way too little pay. I just was weighing the cost of a day w/guide vs a shiny new rack of cams....again...my $.02 worth.

I've only ever climbed trad, I'll roughly give you the method that I've learned from guides and experienced climbing friends. It might seem long and annoying but I've taught a heap of people with this and it never fails.

1. Acquire rack and gear and someone with some knowledge (the two normally come hand in hand)
2. Find an out of the way area at the crag, learn how to identify a good gear placement and how to set it correctly (best gear for flaring cracks, sufficient contact on a tapered nut, slinging natural features, setting a hex and cam properly etc)
3. Learn how to rack gear on slings and harness.
4. Do a traverse not too far above the ground, placing gear, have experienced friend inspect them all and explain strong points and weak points.
5. Learn how to remove all the gear (get a stuck cam or use a nut tool for a stubborn nut, etc) and re-rack it.
6. Make sure you know as many useful basic knots as possible. Alpine butterfly, quick clove hitch, double bunny ears, bowline, etc.

7. Once you understand how to place gear efficiently and correctly learn how to set up an anchor. Learn about direction of pull, which things to connect yourself or the belay to. Learn to use a cordelette, or pull up rope and make a rope anchor, or how to build one with fixed bolts. (Basically, learn to use whatever you have to make a bomber anchor)
8. Practice the above in a heap of situations (pretend you've topped out, pretend you're lost on a route and have to improvise etc, do one semi hanging. You'll realise pretty quickly it's all the same in theory)

9. Make sure you know the process of the climb from start to finish. (Tying in, verbal commands, placing a directional piece, avoiding z-clipping, when to run it out and when to stitch it up for a crux, how to make sure you've placed gear to protect your second, how to make yourself safe before you go off belay, build an anchor, pull up the slack and commence bringing up the second climber, etc)

10. Do a practice run. I find this one super useful for people who don't quite trust their gear.
- Have a competent friend lead a short climb placing spaced out but bomber gear. Second this climb but don't clean the gear, just unclip from it as you pass it. Finish the climb, take note of how everything worked. Go back to the start and lead the climb, placing new gear and re-clipping into the previous leaders gear. If you don't trust your own placements, at least you know you'll land on one of theirs.

11. You should be good to go.

(Or just hook up with a certified guide for two days)

Muscrat wrote: Two of the biggest game changers, no 3 of the biggest, came from Guides.

What were those game changing pieces of advice?

I got the one about aid practice.

Muscrat wrote: ^^1++ You know that is really interesting....had not thought of it, good call. Two of the biggest game changers, no 3 of the biggest, came from Guides. One in Yosemite and the other 2 in Smith. And yes, free.

Imagine how much more you might get if you actually - gasp! - PAID a guide to climb with you.

Bill Czajkowski wrote: What were those game changing pieces of advice? I got the one about aid practice.

Ok, let's preface this with the word LUCK. Or being in the right place at the right time...whatever you want to call it.
The 2 other things were:
A guide chastised me for degrading "Rock Warriors Way" without having read it. It is full of "Castaneda-isms", for which i was putting it down. BUT...i went home and bought it, read it, and it thoroughly changed the way i approach the rock. It really is a great way to get over the mental block. Not the only...i ain't preaching, but...
The 3rd was i was lucky enough to make friends with one of the top Guides in Smith, who on his day off invited me to climb his favorite crack. It was way past my ability at the time, but as my partner said "How can you say no?". I cruised it, he taught me to not see just the grade, but the style, the potential, the ability to push. I went home and sent my first 11 trad, previously having led a couple of 10.a's.
And yes, i might, i probably would, gain great knowledge PAYING a guide, but i am a dirtbag and am lucky enough to climb with really talented climbers, who are willing to have a old windbag to climb with.

I think it's helpful to "weight" some pieces that you've placed..... In other words, take/rest/sit on some pieces and learn to trust them, see how they react, etc. This is WAY different than the force applied from a longer fall from above, but still. You learn to trust and know your pieces in the rock, instead of having them be a mysterious hypothetical.