Maximum weight differential between belayer and climber on lead?

That can work, it can also cause problems, depending on where you are anchoring in relation to where the belayer is standing and where they are getting thrown in a larger fall.

Em Cos wrote: Anchor to the belay loop.

Anchoring to the haul loop is not a good idea for the reason you yourself discovered.. I'm having trouble imagining a situation where anchoring to the belay loop would cause problems that would be solved by anchoring to the haul loop, perhaps you can enlighten me?

Issues with the anchor off the belay loop getting in the way of the belay device/ the rope... If the anchor is behind you/too the side, a big fall that throws the belayer could catch a leg and throw them off balance as whatever is anchoring them goes tight, or jerk them forward (the anchor is going to be lot more static than the rope, no matter what you do, so as the belayer goes thrown, it has less give than the rope.) And it just increases the load on your belay loop, while pulling in in two different directions...

Em Cos wrote:Anchoring to the haul loop is not a good idea for the reason you yourself discovered.. I'm having trouble imagining a situation where anchoring to the belay loop would cause problems that would be solved by anchoring to the haul loop, perhaps you can enlighten me?

eli poss wrote: well i guess it's good I weigh 140 because I don't have good enough reflexes to jump at the same time my partner falls

I think the answer is a combo of your and 20's previous comments. Over time I've adopted standing further away and letting the climbers fall pull me into a couple of steps because a light climber has less mass to overcome the friction in the system.
Like someone else pointed out, if there's enough friction you wouldn't even need a belay device.

So it's hard to time a jump because the friction has already slowed down a lighter climber so much that I'll barely feel any pull when the fall finally does get to me.

60-75lbs.

JonnyGreenlee wrote:Issues with the anchor off the belay loop getting in the way of the belay device/ the rope... If the anchor is behind you/too the side, a big fall that throws the belayer could catch a leg and throw them off balance as whatever is anchoring them goes tight, or jerk them forward (the anchor is going to be lot more static than the rope, no matter what you do, so as the belayer goes thrown, it has less give than the rope.) And it just increases the load on your belay loop, while pulling in in two different directions...

The load on the belay loop isn't really increased, the belay loop doesn't care if it's being pulled between belay device and human or between belay device and anchor. Maybe if you want to get technical there is some higher force since the anchor is static and human bodies have some give - but really either situation is well within the limits of belay loop strength.

Being thrown off balance or tripped up is actually less of an issue when anchored to the belay loop, as you are bypassing the belayer and the force of the fall is going directly to the anchor, so being thrown or tripped shouldn't be an argument against it. You should be oriented so that the anchor is taut and in line with the direction of pull. In fact (assuming you're on the ground belaying the first pitch), you could even set up the belay directly off your anchor and not attach the belayer to it at all. (I don't personally like doing that, because staying in the system ensures I'm always standing in the right position to brake easily, but it's completely possible, and a good tool to have in your kit if you need to belay without a harness.)

As for the anchor attachment carabiner getting in the way of the belay device, this is not a situation I have experienced or can imagine happening, but perhaps I lack sufficient imagination - these types of visual things are difficult to discuss online.

One of the keys here is if you anchor something to the belay loop, leave plenty of slack. It should prevent you from hitting the first bolt, not prevent you from leaving the ground. Typically, a good 4 - 6' of slack is appropriate. That way you can still give a bit of a soft catch, but you wont fly into the first bolt. I see some people anchor themselves to the floor so tightly they can barely even stand up fully. That's a bit ridiculous.

As a light belayer, I've been content so far belaying heavier climbers, but if they decide to hang for awhile, I warn them they will lose a little of their ascent, as I will have to let a tiny bit out to get back off my toes. I also am prepared to anchor, though, when my judgement says to do so, with a static line and prussik so I can move around. In a gym, I would anchor if someone wanted to work a route and hang. Otherwise, just enjoy the flight time on a safe fall! Key, once again, is talking beforehand with the climber, so they know what to expect, and what I am comfortable with.

^^^^
It's a good thing Trollanor has morphed from her 58-yr-old-who-started-climbing-at-57 gumby persona to her usual, expert self.

Not sure what this community would do without the valuable input of those 50 posts every week.

Christian wrote:^^^^ It's a good thing Trollanor has morphed from her 58-yr-old-who-started-climbing-at-57 gumby persona to her usual, expert self. Not sure what this community would do without the valuable input of those 50 posts every week.

Did ST give her the boot and she came crawling back here?

Climbing friend,

It depends more better on where your weight would distribute. If by example as belayer you have large, meaty neck and lots of shoulder meat, you may tip over and fly through the air when giving a catch. If however you have a lot of calf meat, your center of gravity remain low and you will be anchor solidly to the ground..

csproul wrote: Did ST give her the boot and she came crawling back here?

Looks like all but 1 of her posts on ST got vaporized

csproul wrote: Did ST give her the boot and she came crawling back here?

Yay! her posts were always so entertaining. i'm glad she's back

Just for a point of reference... I watched a couple climbing where he did all the leading and out-weighed her by 100lbs.

When he fell, he'd hit the end of the rope and just keep going another 15 or 20 feet, albeit slower than before but still too fast. So for him to fall from bolt #1, 2 or 3 meant hitting the ground far faster than you'd want!

After that I showed them how to use the rocks-in-the-pack method.

What 20kN said. Also, you can tie your backpack to your belay loop with a sling to help even out the weight difference.

Christian wrote:^^^^ It's a good thing Trollanor has morphed from her 58-yr-old-who-started-climbing-at-57 gumby persona to her usual, expert self. Not sure what this community would do without the valuable input of those 50 posts every week.

Sorry, Christian. My comments above are just how it's gone for me as a belayer who is almost always outweighed by my climbers. Because of my pitiful climbing skills, my belaying time is 4-5 times more than my climbing time.

Yes, I'm very new, not remotely an expert, and pretty excited about climbing. That's why I'm on here, to learn from people like you, and, maybe, be allowed to contribute now and then. I also am taking classes, learning from my local community, reading tons of books, and practicing everything I can as often as possible.

Would you rather i just stick with the five minutes of instruction many people get before a rope is stuck in their hand, or do all of the above to be as safe as i can, as fast as possible? Do you prefer belaying skills be learned at the expense of a climber? Of course you don't, and neither do I. Ever.

May I please have your (collective) help?

That's not you in this picture, Elena Sera Jose? Somebody proofreading your posts now?

mountainproject.com/images/…

Why not just post under one name instead of 117 annoying pseudonyms?

because that makes for a more dedicated crowd of followers

Old lady H wrote: Yes, I'm very new, not remotely an expert, and pretty excited about climbing. That's why I'm on here, to learn

Your posts are suspicious because you give advice in some of your posts. For someone new to do that raises red flags. Also, you should not be asking some of your questions on the Internet, but learning, in person, from a mentor.

And your sheer number of posts seems excessive (68 in three weeks), for someone new. That is why you are being questioned as the notorious Trollanor.

FrankPS wrote:That is why you are being questioned as the notorious Trollanor.

see now i'm starting to doubt that it's elenor because of the decent grammar and the fact that her posts aren't hard to read. still a troll, though, for sure