Party of Three, swapping leads

Paul Zander wrote:Here's how I've done it. Option A - If the route is pretty cruisy and well below the limit of 2 in the party, and you only want one rope: 1. Climber 1 leads as normal 2. Climber 2 ties in on a bight to a locker 30 feet from end of rope, climber 3 simuls behind on end of rope. 3. Climber 2 goes in direct to anchor, and climber 3 leads next pitch. Option B - If you're bringing two ropes, or the climb is closer to your limit: 1. Climber 1 leads tagging a line. 2. Climber 1 belays C2 and C3 simultaneously in guide mode. 3. C2 goes in direct when reaching the anchor, unties, and C3 attaches this end to haul loop to tag up while leading the next pitch. 4. C2 ties into the end of the tag line that C1 brought up initially

This has been my go to style for climbing with a party of three. It could help to untie at the belay and retie as not to have to reflake two ropes at a hanging belay.

Medic741 wrote:Anyone have experience stacking the rope into a lightweight sil-net style rope bag while belaying 2 followers simultaneously?

I have considered doing this. I've just been lap coiling the rope and using a sling to secure the line.

OP: Please state what rope system you are using? Makes a big difference.

When I climb with a party of three, we usually climb with a set of half (double) ropes.

Leader (#1) leads on both. Stacks the ropes when bringing up the #2 and #3(usually following each other by a few feet (enough so that if the #2 falls, they won't hit #3)). Ropes are now stacked with the leader (#1) ends on the bottom, and both follower (#2 and #3) ends on top.

#3 unties (lets say blue rope), and gives his end to #2 (new leader). #2 now has both ends from top of stack (blue and red rope).

#1 unties (either rope- lets say blue) and gives to #3. So, #2 is the new leader and has blue and red rope coming off top of stack. #3 still following now has the other end of the blue rope than he had on previous pitch (coming off the bottom of the stack), and #1 has same end of the red rope as they had originally (bottom of stack). Climb on!

Make sense? Pretty quick and simple, takes a sec to look at who has and who needs which end of the rope so that the swap can be made efficiently. It's a good occasion to use something other than the rope to anchor in at the belay since at every belay, someone will be untying completely. Also, it's a good idea to practice double checking each other's knots every time.

Obviously, as I stated initially, if you are using a different rope system, this may not work well. And if you are uncomfortable untying when you are off the ground, you can always re-flake the rope for every pitch (that does not sound fun to me).

Here are the images:
Swapping the leader in a three. The black climber led the last pitch, the red climber will be leading the next. Everyone is clipped into the belay with a cow’s tail whilst doing this.

swapping

swapping 2

swapping 3

"OP: Please state what rope system you are using? Makes a big difference."

We were using two different 60 meter ropes. They were not a matching pair of half ropes. Although I have done that before.

I don't think the type of rope would change any of the logistics?? You still have to untie at each belay station, at least one person if not two or three.

To me the whole key is how/where you flake. The ultimate cluster problems come with weird crosses over/under/around the tie-in lines, and when piles are in the wrong position relative to the next pitch, etc, things like this. With three, it's so damn hard.

Robots and Dinosaurs wrote:With 2 ropes the middle person can lead, get belayed by on one of the two ropes. Once at the top can just belay the other two, one at a time. It is annoying to have an extra rope around but shouldn't be too bad. or I'm wrong and yerrr gonna die.

I don't see a problem doing it this way as long as both ropes are different colors and you aren't clipping the wrong rope if you are the middle leader (would be anonying but beats having to untie and adjust ropes. I don't think I have ever been on a climb with 3 people where we had 3 leaders though so we normally have the 2 end points the leaders and the middle person is just cleaning every pitch.

Also seen plenty of people leading with 2 ropes every pitch so they can belay both followers are the same time.

Think I found the perfect product to try belay rope bags for belaying two followers. Will order one to try this out next time I'm headed out. Will look pretty ridiculous trying this at the Gunks but think the idea of a belay rope bag at the top of each pitch for parties of three makes a lot of sense to speed everything up.

Thoughts?
libertymountain.com/product…

Btw, it's 2.2 oz and is 21 L which should be plenty of room. Really excited to give it a go solve the problem of just a ****load of easily tangled ropes.

Bag would be more of a pain than just controlling the rope imo. I have climbed alot of things with 2 ropes hanging off me when we need them for rappel and didn't feel like taking a pack. Never had a problem with the ropes but feeding them back in a bag as you pull slack seems like more trouble than it is worth (and could tangle ropes when feeding out).