Clipping gear with half ropes.

First let me say that I tried searching the archives for this topic, to no avail. So if someone is kind enough to point me in the right direction of a past thread, thank you in advance and we'll stop this discussion there.

My question is this: When executing a half rope technique, do you absolutely have to alternate between each rope for every piece of gear? For example if my blue rope is being used for my left pieces, and my red for my right, and I come across two (maybe three) pieces that are too far to the left to be clipped by my red(right rope). Do I simply clip my blue rope into all of the left pieces (1,2,3 in a row) until i come across another right-and piece?

If this is an incorrect use of the technique, maybe I please have an explanation as to why? Thanks in advance.

Google "half rope technique" and you will get an education.

(There is SO much info out there on this!)

You can do whatever you want -- It's just an exercise in trying to avoid crossing the lines. Not a danger issue (I don't think). Sometimes it's hard to anticipate what the route will offer you, so you go with best guess on which side to clip.

fromtheestuary wrote:My question is this: When executing a half rope technique, do you absolutely have to alternate between each rope for every piece of gear?

The short answer is "no".

fromtheestuary wrote:Do I simply clip my blue rope into all of the left pieces (1,2,3 in a row) until i come across another right-and piece?

The short answer is "yes". Try not to let your ropes cross and drag you down.

Most anything by RGOLD on DRT will answer your questions.
Also, some good info on the UK sites. They use DRT more than us 'mericans

ukclimbing.com/articles/pag…
ukclimbing.com/articles/pag…

Think of your second(s) too.

Half/double technique doesn't say you alternate. It says that you should choose which rope to clip to which piece of gear in the way that will allow each rope to run, as close as possible, in a straight line. This allows for less rope drag (primary reason), and better rope extension for absorbing falls. It can, also, allow for better protection of a second in a traverse situation where the climb traverses, then ascends at the end of the traverse.

A more interesting question is, can you mix twin & half/double technique within the same pitch? There is more debate on this one, but the conclusion I've drawn is that this, too, is acceptable technique.

I think what he's asking is something I've been curious about as well.
If the nature of the route puts 3 pieces of pro on one of your half ropes, you are essentially protected only by one 8ish mm line. 8mm is often considered too small for a single rope, aren't you effectively using it as a single rope until you can clip the other strand?

Seems like there will be tons of rope stretch, and the rope is tested expecting another rope to help slow your fall. What am I missing?

OP take what you read on the internet with a grain of salt and apply some significant critical analysis to it. Unless of course it is posted by RGold.

JeffL wrote:If the nature of the route puts 3 pieces of pro on one of your half ropes, you are essentially protected only by one 8ish mm line...What am I missing?

You're not missing anything. If you fall on half ropes, even if you're alternating pieces, one rope is going to take most or all of the force. Regarding your concern about a half rope taking a fall, very rarely is anyone taking falls equivalent to the UIAA test (for half or single) outside of a test lab.

Yer gonna die

JeffL wrote:I think what he's asking is something I've been curious about as well. If the nature of the route puts 3 pieces of pro on one of your half ropes, you are essentially protected only by one 8ish mm line. 8mm is often considered too small for a single rope, aren't you effectively using it as a single rope until you can clip the other strand? Seems like there will be tons of rope stretch, and the rope is tested expecting another rope to help slow your fall. What am I missing?

A rope rated for half/double usage is expected to catch a fall on only one strand. This is the normal & expected case. (If the rope is only rated for twin usage [rare], then it isn't expected to catch a fall on one strand, and is expected to be clipped with both ropes clipped into every piece.) Yes, there will likely be a bunch of rope stretch, which means a softer fall, and less force on the top piece. Especially if that piece is a marginal piece of gear, this can be an advantage - less likely to rip a piece out. What such a rope won't handle as well is multiple falls at the same point. In the places where half/double ropes are being used, this isn't usually a concern.

I agree with the acceptability of clipping multiple successive pros with one strand if they happen to be all on the same side. However, I feel that alternating the clipped rope, at least every few pros, is also important. One of the key advantages of the DRT is to have a back-up rope in case one gets severed by rockfall, sharp edge, etc. during a leader’s fall.

There is this classic moderate at Mt Pinacle in Quebec that can be climbed in 4 short-ish pitches. You can also convert it into a two-(rope-stretcher)pitch route. In this case, the first pitch becomes a single long zig-zag (from the bottom up: zig first to the left, then zag to the right).

If you climb this applying strictly the principle of keeping rope zig-zags and friction to a minimum by clipping one rope on the “left side” and the other on the “right”, you end up clipping the first rope only for the first half of the pitch and the second one only for the second half (about 7 successive pros for each half-pitch and each half-rope), which prevents the ropes from acting as each other’s back-up except for a few meters right after switching to the second rope.

In this kind of situation, I prefer racking a few extra-long slings and using them to clip the “other” rope every 3 pros or so near the two widest amplitudes of the zig-zag. I clip these either while also clipping the primary rope in the same pro or alternating. Alternating clipping the two ropes nearer the middle of the zig-zag can be done with more "regular" medium and long slings. Of course, if the primary rope were to get cut in a fall and the fall were caught on an extra-long sling on the other rope it would be an extra-long fall but it would at least keep you from cratering.

Doing this, you do end up with more friction in the two ropes but careful pro placement and slinging allows you to maintain the two-rope back-up over pretty much the whole route while keeping the friction manageable.

David Gibbs wrote:A more interesting question is, can you mix twin & half/double technique within the same pitch? There is more debate on this one, but the conclusion I've drawn is that this, too, is acceptable technique.

If the rope is strictly half (and not dual-rated for twin), the answer to this as I understand it is technically "no".

A big part of rope design and what the UIAA tests through its certification process is the impact force on the falling climber. For half ropes, this is measured on a single strand. For twins, this is measured on both strands.

If you double-clip half ropes, you're going to be increasing the impact force both to the climber and the top piece. This could technically exceed the maximum allowable by UIAA standards.

Ropes that are dual-rated have acceptable impact forces in both one stand (half rope) and double strand (twin rope) configurations. This makes them a lot more flexible, but it pretty much necessarily means more rope stretch in a single strand fall vs a half-only rope.

All that said, do I ever double-clip half ropes? Absolutely, but only when the forces will be low due to a low potential fall factor or slabby terrain.

wfscot wrote: All that said, do I ever double-clip half ropes? Absolutely, but only when the forces will be low due to a low potential fall factor or slabby terrain.

Bingo. Rules are made for people with a lack of judgement. If you don't understand the factors behind the rules, follow the rules. If you understand the risks, you can decide how to manage them inside of your own framework. For my own part, once I'm several pieces above the belay I quit worrying about impact forces.

Quick question regarding half ropes. If you are using half ropes essentially as twin ropes is it best to alternate your left and right ropes to reduce rope drag. For example, if you are climbing under an arch is it best to clip your left rope to your first piece then your right rope to your second piece, and so on? I think where I'm getting with this is that if you have both ropes clipped into one piece there's gonna be more rope drag than there would if you were to alternate them. Thanks in advance.

If I'm going straight up I'm switching ropes for safety. You leave the rope that last clip in on & clip the rope that is off. It saves a few feet in a fall while clipping. If I am going to be zig-zagging or making a directional change I'll stay on one rope till I have made the change in direction.

most of these questions can be answered by reading that little pamphlet that comes with the rope . its usually in 5 different languages but it also has little pictures for those who can't read ;)     Tons of pitches out there where you climb on blue for 50ft and switch to red etc.   Ice leading you are almost always in a situation where a fall is only going to load one strand unless you use twin style. best not to get into this system otherwise you may eventually be tempted to use a single strand of ice floss  as a lead line on climbs with nasty approaches......