Protecting two followers on a traverse with sparse gear

This scenario just came to mind last night. If I'm leading with two seconds (on half ropes, one to each second) and a pitch includes a traverse with only one good piece of protection for the second, is there anything wrong with clipping both ropes to it with separate draws (since half ropes are generally a little big to both go through the same 'biner)? The first follower would unclip only theirs, ensuring they leave it in place for the last up.

I've been on pitches like this, but only climbing in pairs.

Seems sensible to me, but wondering if somebody knows something I don't.

If you are bringing up two followers at the same time on an ATC Guide or Reverso in "guide mode," your proposed method is the normal way of doing it. Both ropes in the same carabiner on each piece of pro.

The first follower unclips his rope only, the second follower unclips and cleans. Standard operating procedure!

Edit: You don't need separate draws, but I'm sure some people will tell you otherwise.

I guess you should clip different draws if you doubles are not also rated as twins.

jason.cre wrote:I guess you should clip different draws if you doubles are not also rated as twins.

That would make no difference since you would still potentially be putting the "excess" load on that piece if a lead fall whether you clip the same biner or two separate biners.

To answer the op, there is a slight chance one rope could burn the other when clipped together if one follower falls. And it is easier for the followers to clean when clipped separately. I wouldn't say you must do it one way or the other. Just be aware of the risks. If you think your partners may struggle through that area clip separate.

Hopefully you are also aware of the serious hazard potential with an auto block setup and traverses.

You can also have the first follower unclip their rope and then clip the other followers rope to the same piece.

The first follower can clip the second follower's rope to the piece. Sometimes requires the second rope to be running through a biner on the first's harness so it's not out of reach when needed. And it's best to identify the situation ahead of time and communicate clearly what everyone's role is.

There's two issues with clipping both ropes to a single biner. One is rope drag -- you want to pull up the red rope to clip, but it's pinned under the blue rope where they both run through the same biner. The other problem occurs if the previous pieces they were clipped to are significantly separated left-to-right -- creates the possibility of tri-axially loading the biner in a fall.

clip each rope to its separate draw/biner at those key points at the traverse ... that way its easy for the less experience piggy in the middle to unclip and theres no need to reclip ... not to mention if you clip both ropes to the same biner theres a decent risk of getting em twisted around each other and a gongshow for all piggies

and only clip the rope for the middle piggy where you need to (dont waste draws clipping on straight up sections, if yr doing double techniques simply alternate for those parts, if single + trail rope then clip the trail only where needed)

which means of course that youll need a few extra biners/draws and manage it properly ...

but then thats why you stepped up to be the (WO)MAN !!!

;)

What bb said. ^^^

The one thing I'd add is that I prefer to use different length draws for the each rope on the traversing part, so that you don't have pairs of rope-end carabiners at the same levels playing games with each other.

You can use a long and short sling on the same gear-end biner and so save a carabiner. If you are using cams with a dedicated carabiner that is normally left on the cam when it is placed, put a shoulder-length runner on that and clip a shorter draw to the cam sling and you've still used up three rather than four free carabiners.

One strand should go in all the long draws, the other stand should go in all the short ones.

Photos of various approaches shown here (of course):

people.bath.ac.uk/dac33/hig…

When climbing with beginners though I tend to put separate pieces of pro in for each so they get exposed to a more normal climbing experience.

Sorry for the disappearance, went climbing.

I actually ran into this scenario yesterday. A reasonably tricky 8m traverse. There was a belay immediately before it, and I chose to create one immediately after it to avoid drag and maintain as much visual and voice contact as possible.

We did a couple things. First, one climbed at a time, to the anchor before the next started. If it were a longer pitch this would have been more troublesome (slower), but given the entire pitch was the traverse, this helped reduce some of the potential problems with the ropes sharing biners. Second, I only clipped both ropes into the same biner if the swing potential was getting significant for one of the followers. I hadn't considered using the racking biner and a draw like in one of the photos David linked to, I'd do that in the future where there is a racking biner to work with.

The result was very limited swing potential and, as best as I could tell, very limited risk around the two or three points where ropes did share a biner. I guess it's just a balance of all factors.Thanks for helping point out potential issues.

Greg, I understand that a guide mode ATC is somewhat directional (and worked just fine in this case because the belay was a couple metres above the traverse and last piece of pro on the traverse), but if you think there's something I might be missing I'd appreciate it!