Grigri question

I recently took a "how to lead sport" (gym) class, for fun. I've been climbing outside mainly, and learned to belay with an ATC. For this clinic, we used grigris, a grigri 1 and a grigri 2. I do know they can be futzy (rope diameter, other stuff), and that I am not the only one who has had trouble working them. I am not looking to stir up the grigris kill/save people thing either. Two questions:

1) the ones we were using looked, well, definitely used. Do they get cantankerous with age? Develop their own little quirks?

2) while my hands and brain are still acquainted with the things, should I take the practice time I need to be reliable, in case some future partner wants a grigri belay? Or just stick with where I am? Which is pretty darn reliable on ATC, and confident I could work a grigri if I had too. Had to meaning maybe not smooth or comfortable for the climber, but safely up or down the cliff if their belayer dropped dead.

Guess it would help to say my problem was trying to feed slack. Kept locking and/or jamming, when feeding slowly, or holding the cam down, either device on the rope. Dont remember the rope size, but it seemed stiffish to me, so fatter probably. I'm usually pretty good at picking up hand skills quickly, so this was somewhat frustrating.

Thanks!

I used an ATC exclusively for a while. You will get a lot of opinions on this but the grigri is ubiquitous enough and has a pretty strong safety case that you should be comfortable with it as you progress in your climbing development. I would recommend learning how to use at least one of the auto locking or auto assist devices. There are many videos out there showing different techniques to make it easier, but using thinner and newer ropes will make the process smoother.

Stay safe

Hey Old Lady H...for someone new to the GriGri you certainly asked some excellent questions. I can't say that I've ever worn a GriGri out to the point of noticing any cantankerous tendencies, but like anything else things do wear out. Your question/issues with paying out slack with the GriGri, especially when the leader pulls up rope quickly and/or unexpectedly are common. Try watching this video on belaying with a GriGri by Petzl. Just keep practicing and developing that muscle memory. Before long it will be 2nd nature to you. Good climbing, and keep asking those wonderful questions. You never learn less.

google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q…

1) not really. They get dirty over time and can maybe lock up a little easier than when new, but that's about it.

2) if you think you'll ever have any interest in working routes that are hard for you (ie, falling a lot) or climbing with people that are doing so, yes you should get comfortable with a Grigri. They really are fantastic for belaying a climber that is falling or hanging a lot.

Thanks for letting me know it's me getting cranky, not the device. I guess part of my concern is just laziness, really, why do it if I don't have to. More seriously, though, the techniques for grigri and ATC are different, and not interchangeable. I've got good, safe automatic habits now. So, to do both, I'd have to work at it. Hmm, guess I'm just back to lazy.

But, it does seem like an excellent idea to try a range of devices. I totally agree with learning anything you can.

I've spent quite a lot more time belaying than climbing, plus some rapelling and ascending with Purcell's, and have been pretty comfortable. Good grip stength helps a bunch, I'm sure.

This stuff was the instructor's, so no choice on what we did. I've signed up with a different class at a different place, in a few weeks, so that should help me decide. Thanks, all!

Rope size is definitely an issue too. With a grigri 2 anything over a 10mm is a pain in the ass. It just locks way too easy when trying to feed slack even when holding the cam down. 9.8mm or smaller is nice because you can feed small amounts without needing to hold the cam down if done slowly enough though you will with large and quick feeds of rope.

I have an "old and worn out" Gri Gri 1. And, yes, it is prone to jamming when the rope is fat (> 10mm), lumpy, or dirty, or some combination of all 3. With a clean new 9.8mm, no problem. I also use an ATC. I use basically the same belay technique with both. I regard the Gri Gri as a "lock assist" device, not an "auto lock" device. Brake hand always stay on the rope when feeding slack.

I'd definitely learn to become comfortable with using it.
The braking part is pretty straight forward (brake hand never leaves rope)
It's the lowering someone that can be sketchy if you don't practice

old lady h -

you don't have to learn how to use any device if you don't want to or you are feeling lazy, but being confident in using some type of auto-locking device is an important skill for a climber to possess. it is a great device if you are climbing with partners who are much bigger than you who are hanging or falling a lot too.

find a trusted partner to lead up a few bolts on a route he/she is are confident on and practice lowering smoothly with your grigri and giving up slack slowly as they move up. being up front and honest with your partner is the most important so each of you feels safe. it really won't take that many routes to practice using it better and being able to give slack quickly if needed, but be open about your skill level with your partner and just take some time to communicate and practice.

yesterday in fact, one of my partners got a new rope so he wanted me to learn how to use his Edelrid Jule to belay. i was actually kind of excited to learn how to use a new device, so we practiced using the above scenario. first route, I short roped him a few times, but by the second route he was lowered much more smoothly and given an appropriate amount of slack when clipping. Actually I really like this device compared to a regular ATC. i plan to practice a few more easy routes next time we are out. Most importantly, I want my partner to be comfortable and feel safe with my belay technique and I want to belay him how he wants to be belayed, so it might just take a bit of practice, and he knows that.

In the end, do what makes you comfortable and confident to give a SAFE belay. that matters.

Not to complicate the issue, but the Edelrid Mega Jul is a fun little auto-assist belay device that functions like an ATC while doing most of the work of holding a fallen/hanging climber. Small, light, ATC-like. Be Safe, stay proficient.

I think it is coming down to, is, do the research, watch the videos, try every device I can get my hands on, with their proud owners showing me how. Especially before ever buying anything. And, in the meantime, get the gri down, cause they're so common. Dang.

After climbing for over a year, and using a gri-gri once or twice, I decided it was time to buy one. My reasons were:

1) Some people have a strong preference to be belayed with one.
2) It seems very useful if you are belaying someone projecting a route.
3) Safer from the point of view of rockfall and being knocked unconscious.
4) Can be used for TR or lead soloing.
5) It's a very popular device so I'd like to be competent with it.

So I bought a Gri-Gri 2. I'm still rough with it as I haven't used it much yet. And I've noticed that with old, fat, chalky, greasy gym ropes, it's not very smooth. Seems much smoother in that ideal rope diameter range though.

It has not, and probably will not replace my ATC style device. "The tools go in the tool box."

Long pause, sorry! I'm doing another gym lead clinic later this month (different gym), so maybe another try at a grigri or perhaps some other device(s).

I know gri is very common, but not gonna buy if I have to keep my hand by the device a bunch of the time to feed slack fast and smoothly enough. I just can't convince my ATC trained hand and brain that is safe. I do plan to work it hard, so the jury is still out on it, grigri fans! : )

When I do get ready to buy, is it reasonable to purchase any of these devices you all mentioned used? And if a grigri, should I get a 2, or try to hunt down a 1? After all, great belaying skills will at least let me participate in those big ticket climbs! : )

Try a Trango Cinch.

Elenor thread

rocknice2 wrote:Try a Trango Cinch.

Thanks for offering your suggestion. They sound good for the price, reading reviews, but it also sounded like they wear out fast, so I will probably pass on that one.

This is what the first gym handed out for people to top rope belay with, so it was good to read the comments. I was thinking I might go there once on awhile, but I think I'm going to cautiously sit and watch there before I do any more climbing. Thanks again!

plenty of very safe climbers use an ATC/belay tube/plate and never bother fussing with semi-active devises. Use what you like and always expect ol'timers to sneer at your new needlessly complicated toy. On the other side always expect the new school kids/fanbois to over hype complicated belay devices.

the safest belay is the type that the belayer is most comfortable with giving (within reason). I personally love the alpine smart but if you want to stick with an ATC then do that. If your climber would rather you belay with a gri that you aren't comfortable with, think twice about climbing with them.

I personally refuse to use a gri because I am not comfortable with it and consider myself to be an unsafe belayer using a gri. I also don't like how static it is.

but if you want to use a gri, and you are comfortable using it, by all means go ahead. do make sure, though, that you are 100% comfortable with it before putting somebody's life on it.

Thanks Gription and Eli, both. Agreed!

At least I know a few things for sure: keep ramping up ATC skills (all the other stuff besides top rope belays. Some of that I'm well into already); as I come across other devices, snag the opportunity to try them out; learn/read about other devices so I can maybe have a clue if someone is safe using them; have fun, but always take it seriously; and think twice if someone gives/gets a few seconds of instruction on something totally new to them, and is considered "safe". IMO, when you are absolutely new, meaning first climb ever, you will have to put complete trust in someone. But from then on, it's up to you to build on what they should have taught you right at the start.

Device wise, I'll be doing as I've stated, but my preference in an assist, if I ever get one, will definitely be those that will still function ATC style as their fail safe. And, somewhere or other on MP I am on record to healyje that I will gladly learn a hip belay, if I cross paths with the right person! Probably a lot more too, with that depth of experience. Sadly, those folks are fewer these days.

Because it was almost thirty years ago, and I didn't yet know I was interested, I missed that chance with one of our locals. I don't remember if he was 10th mt. division, or predated it, but if it was back country, he was an expert and helped pioneer it. He was also a world renowned falconer, and I did at least appreciate that, and was very honored when he took me out back of his house to meet his beautiful and intimidating birds!

As Benjamin more or less said up above, there is always more to learn. When there isn't, might just as well pack it in.

as far as a locking assisted device that is like an ATC, I recommend the alpine smart, but honestly any locking assist device will require some changes, although subtle, in technique.

with a supple rope in the middle 1/3 the device's thickness range and a roundstock HMS biner the smart feeds rope smoothly. you do have to bring the break strand closer to parallel than with ATC while feeding, though. plus, it lets a small amount of rope slip before locking off unlike a gri.

also, I would suggest becoming comfortable with a munter hitch in addition to an ATC. If you progress far enough in climbing, and it sounds like you will based on your attitude, you will end up using the munter hitch at some point. i personally use it all the time.

eli poss wrote:as far as a locking assisted device that is like an ATC, I recommend the alpine smart, but honestly any locking assist device will require some changes, although subtle, in technique. with a supple rope in the middle 1/3 the device's thickness range and a roundstock HMS biner the smart feeds rope smoothly. you do have to bring the break strand closer to parallel than with ATC while feeding, though. plus, it lets a small amount of rope slip before locking off unlike a gri. also, I would suggest becoming comfortable with a munter hitch in addition to an ATC. If you progress far enough in climbing, and it sounds like you will based on your attitude, you will end up using the munter hitch at some point. i personally use it all the time.

Thanks, Eli. Yeah, munter is on my to do list, along with various friction hitches beside prussik, and a whole pile of other stuff to practice. One of the big plusses for climbing, I know there is always something I can work on, even if my actual climbing ability doesn't go very far! : )