Leader's Pack - Design Survey

Tico wrote:I would ignore 100% of these suggestions. Keep it simple.

+1

It would seem the majority of critiques all have to do with adding different pockets/loops to the pack. Maybe it's worth considering adding a basic waist belt system that can be removed. Then you can do fun things like offer padded hip belts, hip belts with gear loops, pockets, etc. Or none at all.

Very cool pack, reminiscent of the pata pack. Any idea what the total volume is?

Most leader packs I see tend to have pretty high zips to keep things from falling out. Is that not a concern with the side zip, or did I read that wrong and its a separate pocket.

I'd buy it as is ASAP. Let me know when you want to sell some.

Tico wrote:I would ignore 100% of these suggestions. Keep it simple.

This.

I want something simple if I'm going to wear it while leading. No waist strap. No sternum strap. No pockets on the straps. A simple pack with no bells and whistles. The haul loops look useful. I'd be fine without the axe loops, but then again, I'd probably take a different pack altogether when leading ice.

I actually led with mine this past weekend Josh and really have no complaints as it exists right now. I added on the sternum strap to mine, though maybe a small zippered pocket on the inside, for keys, etc. but aside from that the pack is killer. It has become my favorite and go to pack. Simple, sleek, nothing to get caught in a chimney (super durable), it's awesome. Packs a double rack, harness, shoes, helmet, chalk bag and snacks and still feels like there is nothing in it. You nailed it with this pack.

whats the weight?

personally i would get rid of the zippered side access ... IMO its a point of failure and not needed on a pack that small

personally i like the option for a waistbelt ... its easy to make it removable ... i find it prevents the pack fro swaying when climbing

ice axe loops weight nothing and makes the pack useful for a summit./off season pack

i presume the foam backing is removable?

the biggest unknown and what stops me from buying a pack without trying it on first ... is of course the FIT

;)

I'm not sure how your guys do your thing but my 16L Arcteryx pack has no axe loops or zippers. I don't need them. My 30L or 50L pack does. I use that pack to transport everything to the bottom of the route with tools on the outside. When I get to the bottom of the route I pull out my leaders pack. Rack up and throw on the pack. I get to the top, clip my tools to my harness and rap back down to the bigger pack.

If I'm headed to the alpine I take my 30L or wear my harness and clip the tools to them.

My point is that pack doesn't need axe straps. It looks good the way it is. I would like a loop at the top to clip the pack to the anchor.

Bill Kirby wrote: I'm not sure how your guys do your thing but my 16L Arcteryx pack has no axe loops or zippers. I don't need them. My 30L or 50L pack does. I use that pack to transport everything to the bottom of the route with tools on the outside. When I get to the bottom of the route I pull out my leaders pack. Rack up and throw on the pack. I get to the top, clip my tools to my harness and rap back down to the bigger pack. If I'm headed to the alpine I take my 30L or wear my harness and clip the tools to them. My point is that pack doesn't need axe straps. It looks good the way it is. I would like a loop at the top to clip the pack to the anchor.

Not all of us climb routes where you can go back and collect yr pack at the base

And not all of us bring multiple packs on multi

Ice axe loops weight nothing really and if you dont want wm snip em off

;)

I would add the ability to mount a rope on the outside. It will save so much volume inside that small pack. Add a rope strap to the top and one on each side near the middle. Looks like a great pack overall, simple, sleek, light, and burly.

bearbreeder wrote: Not all of us climb routes where you can go back and collect yr pack at the base And not all of us bring multiple packs on multi Ice axe loops weight nothing really and if you dont want wm snip em off ;)

It's not about the weight of the ice tool loops, it's the extra stuffs flopping around that I think most of us dislike. Unless there is a neat way to tug the ice tool loops and the straps for the shaft of the tools, I would prefer these extra stuff off my pack. Again, it's my personal taste

Bang wrote: It's not about the weight of the ice tool loops, it's the extra stuffs flopping around that I think most of us dislike. Unless there is a neat way to tug the ice tool loops and the straps for the shaft of the tools, I would prefer these extra stuff off my pack. Again, it's my personal taste

some packs have little tabs on the side for bungee cord that you can use for side compression straps ... those would secure the axe

or one can simply put a little tab where the tool shaft would end up so that folks can use their own bungee or velcro

either way weights basically nothing ... though it may complicate production

ultimately its a decision for the maker as to whether they want a "pure" rock climbing pack ... or whether it would be useful as a summit/scrambling/mixed leader pack as well

the latter could be one at almost no weight cost if desired and would expand the market quite a bit IMO

ultimately though ... this is the competition at 79 smackaroos (im sure everyone can agree that pataguccis is a great company)



;)

bearbreeder wrote: Not all of us climb routes where you can go back and collect yr pack at the base And not all of us bring multiple packs on multi Ice axe loops weight nothing really and if you dont want wm snip em off ;)

I touched on that.

That too

Nope, it's easier than that. I'll buy a <20L pack with no axe loops.

Thanks for the feedback, everyone!

I’ve had 44 responses so far and it’s really interesting to compare our differing preferences. Truly I think it comes down to user preference as we all have differing climbing styles. I myself really enjoyed this pack design on full-day alpine-rock routes. I’m more inspired by a clean, functional, and minimalist aesthetic. I also feel that the market is completely inundated with over-featured packs; to the point that many begin to lose functionality IMO.

I really like the idea for some sort of modular system for attaching a pocket to the shoulder strap. I’m not sure I’d use it myself but I can understand the convenience.

The Zipper is oriented for a right-handed climber and can be accessed by swinging the pack in front of you. The zipper is also in a place that doesn’t receive as much abrasion. I trust it because I built it but I can understand the unease.

If the Zipper isn’t your thing I can always exclude it.

The pack is right at 20L with a 4L extension. The pack including the foam back supports weight 13.5 oz

I’m still trying to source some hooks for a detachable belt system. I don’t climb with one myself but it is clearly nice when needed.

A few changes I’m making based on your feedback are:

A hybrid elastic, non-elastic sternum strap
A detachable waist belt
Tabs for helmet and DIY shock-cord attachments.
Should strap biner loop (unobtrusive)
Detachable rope catch up top

Other than that I’m going to keep this design clean. I have other ideas for a larger ice pack and am looking into machining some hardware.

Oh, and I can’t answer questions from the survey. Your answers are all anonymous. Shoot me a message through MP if you have any questions.

Cheers!

I would be excited about a simple pack specifically designed/sized to carry and feed out rope while on rope solo lead...

there is not anything that I have come across designed specifically for this purpose, you could really corner that market...

Josh Kornish wrote: I’m still trying to source some hooks for a detachable belt system.

Webbing waist belts are easier than that. one fastex and two double over pieces. Arcteryx and a bunch other manufacturers use it. Material cost would be pennies.

If you could sew the ends of the webbing belt to make a full strength "rabbit runner" then that would be awesome. Just use fastex buckles. I'm unaware of another pack with that feature. I see the desire for no daisy chain and ice axe loops, however it's a must for me. It adds versatility

Ryanb. wrote:I would be excited about a simple pack specifically designed/sized to carry and feed out rope while on rope solo lead... there is not anything that I have come across designed specifically for this purpose, you could really corner that market...

Ryan, what about this?

Strip the zipper and inside pocket. Have two outside haul loops and nothing outside to get caught.

Have two haul loops on the inside of the pull cord shroud.

You can then roll the shroud down to reveal these additional haul loops to attach to the anchor.

Now have a loop in the pack bottom to tie one end.

Have outside bottom loop to add weight or directional.

I could simplify the straps even more to make it more affordable as well. What do you think?

Ray Pinpillage wrote: Webbing waist belts are easier than that. one fastex and two double over pieces. Arcteryx and a bunch other manufacturers use it. Material cost would be pennies.

Ray, you're totally right. I'm just trying to get fancy with hardware which at this point shouldn't be my priority. What I could do is a triglide on each side that way you don't have any leftover strap hanging in front of you. The adjustment would be through the tri glides on each side.

Thanks for keeping me straight!

webdog wrote:If you could sew the ends of the webbing belt to make a full strength "rabbit runner" then that would be awesome. Just use fastex buckles. I'm unaware of another pack with that feature. I see the desire for no daisy chain and ice axe loops, however it's a must for me. It adds versatility

Web Dog. That's a great idea! Very clever and probably not even that hard to execute. I'm well versed in structural sewing but the liability of "full stregth".... haha

For my packs with removable hip belts I just put two loops at the bottom seam and tack them down at the top, simply slide the hip belt through to add it on and with the loops tacked down at the top you don't notice them otherwise.