fixe chains breaking and cracks

from the DAV ... what to look for and how they fail at ~5-6 KN

use yr google translate-fu

alpenverein.de/bergsport/si…

warning sheet from fixe ...

alpenverein.de/chameleon/pu…

note to fixe ... get your act together ... yr alien cams simply come apart

;)

bearbreeder wrote:from the DAV ... what to look for and how they fail at ~5-6 KN use yr google translate-fu alpenverein.de/bergsport/si… warning sheet from fixe ... alpenverein.de/chameleon/pu… note to fixe ... get your act together ... yr alien cams simply come apart ;)

These were outdoors right? The article said they were located in "a DAV climbing center with a discharge operation on the outer wall."....

i suspect they were on an outdoor wall somewhere by the beer garden

;)

what are these? 304? 316?
Check out the corrosion... think that one over. I bet they are 304, and costal.

Tony B wrote:what are these? 304? 316? Check out the corrosion... think that one over. I bet they are 304, and costal.

its 304 ... it doesnt say what city its in (quite a bit of germany isnt coastal) ... but then its basically in an urban setting (outside wall of a climbing gym) ... and they were found in other gyms as well

interestingly enough the DAV claims it only affects the "manual welded" stainless steel chain (the one connecting to the hanger) if i understand correctly

it doesnt seem to affect the glavanized steel version either ...

see here

alpenverein.de/chameleon/pu…

;)

bearbreeder wrote: it doesnt seem to affect the glavanized steel version either ... see here alpenverein.de/chameleon/pu… ;)

SCC typically does not seem to affect mild steel often. It's mostly an issue with stainless steel and to a much less degree, aluminum.

This FIXE chain anchor broke in Puerto Rico yesterday under bodyweight. Luckily it wasn't the climber's only connection to the route. Looks like the exact same issue in a very corrosive environment:

Fixe chain anchor breaking near Cayey, Puerto Rico on Aug. 31, 2015

Eli Helmuth wrote: ...under bodyweight. Luckily it wasn't the climber's only connection to the route.

^^^ That will start your heart racing!

Makes you really think about redundancy and checking the gear over as well as you can.

The imperfections and/or faults to look for can be so subtle that they could easily be overlooked by one in a hurry, not paying attention from being tired, or using the gear at night.

bearbreeder's top picture shows a chain link with an obvious crack, and one that could most likely be noticed fairly quickly. Look at the second picture and this crack is not as apparent - easy to miss I would think.

Wouldn't a total failure of a chin link require TWO breaks? A single crack would leave the link intact, albeit no longer a closed oval. And while I can't prove it, I've got to believe that a 5/16" chain link has an open-loop strength far greater than body weight.

Gunkiemike wrote:Wouldn't a total failure of a chin link require TWO breaks? A single crack would leave the link intact, albeit no longer a closed oval. And while I can't prove it, I've got to believe that a 5/16" chain link has an open-loop strength far greater than body weight.

But you are assuming that the problem in a link only effects one area of the link, as opposed to an intrinsic problem. Thunder only happens when it's raining.

Gunkiemike wrote:Wouldn't a total failure of a chin link require TWO breaks? A single crack would leave the link intact, albeit no longer a closed oval. And while I can't prove it, I've got to believe that a 5/16" chain link has an open-loop strength far greater than body weight.

Yes that is correct, although the crack could form right at the top or bottom of the chain. Also, a crack could form on both sides of the chain.

Hi,
Thanks for posting the photo of the break in Puerto Rico.

Do you know exactly where the chain link failed?
Was it near the weld, or not?

You've got a ring plus six chain links in your hand.
I'm assuming the break was on link seven, right?

Or was it on a ring that attached it to the hanger?

It's useful to now, because I THINK that the chain is made by a different company, and then the rings are welded onto the chain.
The rings attach it to the hanger at one end, or you clip onto the other.

Thanks!
Alan Jarvis
UIAA

Where is the response from FIXE on this? No recall...no response (other than the PDF linked above)...still selling the same gear currently with no mention of why they have deemed the instances noted above as isolated or why they think their current batches are safe.

They went on the attack when the ClimbX hangers failed (and that was needed!), but they have yet to address their own QA issues?

How can they ignore this? Why are these still for sale on their US website?

This comes shortly after their US "branch" began selling highly questionable bolts and claimed they were stronger than the manufacture's spec sheet noted. They have a history of making some of the best products in the industry...but these recent issues makes you question their ultimate credibility and QA procedures.

I understand that corrosion is inevitable and no product will last forever...but these failures appear to be well before any reasonable person would expect them to fail or require replacement.

We saw the same thing as the OP's photo on a Fixe chain in the Coliseum a few years back. Someone saw the crack at the link weld and removed it before anyone (potentially) got hurt. Same product as far as I can tell— the chain link directly on the hanger.

For fixed draws at the New, we switched to the Climb-Tech swaged cable draws and they've been holding up really well.

Gunkiemike wrote:Wouldn't a total failure of a chin link require TWO breaks? A single crack would leave the link intact, albeit no longer a closed oval. And while I can't prove it, I've got to believe that a 5/16" chain link has an open-loop strength far greater than body weight.

The original warning from the German Distributor (Handelsagentur Friedering e.K) issued on 27th July shows a chain link broken in two parts, beside the weld and at the start of the opposite bend.

WarthogARJ wrote:Hi, Thanks for posting the photo of the break in Puerto Rico. Do you know exactly where the chain link failed? Was it near the weld, or not? You've got a ring plus six chain links in your hand. I'm assuming the break was on link seven, right? Or was it on a ring that attached it to the hanger? It's useful to now, because I THINK that the chain is made by a different company, and then the rings are welded onto the chain. The rings attach it to the hanger at one end, or you clip onto the other. Thanks! Alan Jarvis UIAA

Hi Alan,
This was from a friend's facebook post in Puerto Rico. Here is the link: facebook.com/photo.php?fbid…

Let me know if I can be of further service. The climber's name is Ely Bonivi

Cheers,
Eli

I don't want to suggest that any of the failure aren't original Fixe work. Consider that it's possible a route setter welded on his own chain onto standard fixe hangers instead of buying the factory built one. I can't imagine why, as it seems to more trouble than the cost, but you never know.

No, Fixe is saying that these are their welds and they're breaking. No one else is doing these welds and please read the technical report (translate in google is easy) to see what they're talking about.
FIXE welded chains breaking

And their quickdraw fix shown in the third photo is kind of lame when those two links could be connected without the sling to provide a no slack connection. Suppose it's the only way to deal with this issue other than remove them completely and unless Fixe if paying, that's a big expense not to mention all of the thousands of steel bolts that need to be replaced with titanium glue-in around the world.

I always thought the Fixe anchors with chains directly attached to the hangers by weld rather than quicklinks were bad designs (mostly because you had to replace the whole contraption if the wear point needed replacement) Glad I never used them.

Hi Eli,
Thanks for the link.
I'll need to ask to be Friended I think.
It didn't let me in initially.

But no big deal, I'll do that.

I'm going to contact Fixe for more information.
When we hear more I shall post it on this forum.

The people who were really on the ball with this were the German Climbing Federation (the DAV). The have a permanent staff that looks after issues like this: very efficient.

And it's made possible because the DAV has 500,000 members!!! Amazing, hey? But you really get a good deal by joining the DAV.

However in a plug for the other federations (American Alpine Club etc) it really helps to join them. or the Access Fund. Or the ASCA. Donate etc.

Alan

Fixe/Techrock finally posted an reply several days ago: techrock.es/en/news/stress-…

Unfortunately Techrock do not mention it is their welding of the final link that is causing the problem. Techrock informed distributers about a week earlier in a somewhat more informative mail. In this Techrock tried to point out the main problem is environment and heavy use. Kinda weird when it seams to be down to a welding issue. In my opinion Techrock could have been more forthcoming in their replies. A mea culpa would have been nice.

Chainlinks with cracks have been found in several climbing gyms in Germany. I heard some of the chains were installed less then 2 years ago, under a roof (protected from the weather) and marine conditions do not apply 200 to 500 miles from the sea...

In reply to Alan: DAV have over 1 million members.

I wonder how many anchors are involved? Hell of a job to fix(e) this, right? :-)