What do you use for ditch biners on a sport route?

I've heard tell of cheap quick links you can buy from the hardware store to use instead of made-for-climbing biners for bailing off a sport route. Does anyone have recommendations for these that they have personal experience using?

Please just use a carabiner.

Will Bradford wrote:I've heard tell of cheap quick links you can buy from the hardware store to use instead of made-for-climbing biners for bailing off a sport route. Does anyone have recommendations for these that they have personal experience using?

The cheap plated kind. 3/8"

I use biners that I've cleaned from previous routes. I have a few clipped to the side of my pack and bring one or 2 along if I think bailing is likely.

Use old/cheep carabiners. Quick links are great for bailing off slings/cord but are super annoying when left on bolts. Nothing is more annoying than trying to undo a quick link while your mid-route, especially since people typically bail off routes that are difficult.

Quick links do work to bail BUT they are a huge fucking pain in the ass to clean. If you leave them on the route, the next person has to try to clip over our link or remove your link before clipping. If the clip is precarious, this is often times a shit show. Please bail off a carabiner. I usually bail off a non-locker unless I have bootied a locker recently. If I am really concerned about the gate opening, I take a piece of tape and tape it shut.( I keep a strip of tape on the back of my helmet.)

Cheap BD Ovals if you must carry a piece of new gear. Clip your chalkbag, camera, jacket, whatever, to your harness with your bail 'biner of choice. Voila, you are now not carrying extra gear to bail on. If you are worried about it not being a locking 'biner, tape it shut.

Cheap ovals are useful for racking pins, nuts, tricams, etc. on a multi-pitch gear or alpine route. You can then bail on those instead of bringing extra gear to bail on "just in case".

I don't. I stick clip through the part I can't dog through if necessary. Safer and you don't leave crap for other people to deal with. To get your stick, get lowered down enough so you can clip in direct to the second bolt down and clip off a knotted bight from the upper one (so you are into two bolts direct and the belayer can take you off), then lower a loop to retrieve the stick. Pull it up, belayer puts you back on belay. Unclip the bight and from direct into the bolt and aid your way through the hard section.

Just check websites for blemish/clearance biners. I've found them for 3 and change. About the same price as quick links that I would trust to bail on... And less hassle for the next climber.

So, if you are going off a biner, you are either trusting one biner and bolt or leaving two biners (one for each of two bolts). If I was going off one big fat glue in that I or my friends set and trusted (in which case no biner needed anyway), OK, but trusting some random bolt completely with my life when I don't need to seems kind of dumb. I have seen plenty of shitty bolts that looked fine from the outside. If more people were aware they wouldn't be so blase about doing stupid shit off one bolt.

Will Bradford wrote:I've heard tell of cheap quick links you can buy from the hardware store to use instead of made-for-climbing biners for bailing off a sport route. Does anyone have recommendations for these that they have personal experience using?

Climbing friend,

I would not bail. I likely complete bold flash.

Will Bradford wrote:I've heard tell of cheap quick links you can buy from the hardware store to use instead of made-for-climbing biners for bailing off a sport route. Does anyone have recommendations for these that they have personal experience using?

I guess it bears repeating yet again.
DO NOT USE QUICKLINKS FOR BAILING on a sport route.

As someone pointed out, they're a pain in the ass for any subsequent party to deal with. They become a super PITA when they rust shut in a few weeks.

M Sprague wrote:To get your stick, get lowered down enough so you can clip in direct to the second bolt down and clip off a knotted bight from the upper one (so you are into two bolts direct and the belayer can take you off), then lower a loop to retrieve the stick. Pull it up, belayer puts you back on belay. Unclip the bight and from direct into the bolt and aid your way through the hard section.

I am having a hard time visualizing this at the moment. Could you please go into a bit more detail? I understand lowering down to the 2nd bolt and going in direct. However, what do you mean when you say, "...clip off a knotted bight from the upper one?"

I have also noticed that most people tend to lower off one bolt/biner when bailing. I have been guilty of this and even expressed this once to my partners, but all I got was a reply back that the bolt is good (which in fact it did take multiple decent-sized falls). Still didn't feel great about it, though.

M Sprague wrote:So, if you are going off a biner, you are either trusting one biner and bolt or leaving two biners (one for each of two bolts). If I was going off one big fat glue in that I or my friends set and trusted (in which case no biner needed anyway), OK, but trusting some random bolt completely with my life when I don't need to seems kind of dumb. I have seen plenty of shitty bolts that looked fine from the outside. If more people were aware they wouldn't be so blase about doing stupid shit off one bolt.

You can minimize the risk by placing a prusik on the rope going from the bolt to your belayer, attaching that to you (via a nice fat locker), and sliding it down the rope as you clean on the way down. That way, if the bolt rips, you're only falling the distance down to the next bolt (or other pro), plus prusik length, plus rope stretch (so really, a normal lead fall). I know this was described nicely in something on Petzl's site, but I can't find it now.

Jared Moore wrote: I am having a hard time visualizing this at the moment. Could you please go into a bit more detail?

Your belayer lowers you down to the bolt below the one you fell on. Now clip a draw from your belay loop to that bolt. Your belayer then gives you enough slack that you can tie a figure 8 in the belayer's side of the rope coming down from the upper bolt. Clip that knot to your belay also. You have now created a two bolt anchor for yourself so it is safe for you can tell you belayer to temporarily take you off belay.

Now pull up enough slack from below to send down a loop for someone to tie the stick on for you to pull up. Once you have the stick drop the loop and have the belayer take up most of the slack and put you back on belay. Once belay is confirmed, unclip that figure 8 and undo it (not your original tie in knot!) so the belayer can take in the rest of the slack. When ready to move up unclip the draw you are attached in direct with and move up by batmanning up the rope to the higher bolt and clip in direct with a second draw. Belayer now gives you just enough slack to stick clip the next bolt. Repeat if necessary. One you get to the point where it it easier to dog the rest of the way, leave the stick clipped to a bolt.

Prusiks have their place in emergencies, but they tend to spell clusterfuck to me.

I wouldn't trust a prusik on a lead fall either although if I was lowering off only one bolt Its better than nothing. I go teo bolts unless I'm only 2-3 bolts up when I bail.

Ryan M Moore wrote:I wouldn't trust a prusik on a lead fall either although if I was lowering off only one bolt Its better than nothing. I go teo bolts unless I'm only 2-3 bolts up when I bail.

I think if you look through Petzl's literature, they have actually tested this and they came out just fine. Bearbreader posted a link to these tests at one point.

Ryan M Moore wrote:I wouldn't trust a prusik on a lead fall either although if I was lowering off only one bolt Its better than nothing. I go teo bolts unless I'm only 2-3 bolts up when I bail.

Yet earlier this year a guy died in Owens River Gorge when the 3rd bolt failed (he was solo aiding the route and for some reason was only/exclusively, with no backup, on the bolt that failed).

csproul wrote: I think if you look through Petzl's literature, they have actually tested this and they came out just fine. Bearbreader posted a link to these tests at one point.

did sumone mention a phat lazay beah???

it might not be the smoothest and youll need to keep the prussik snug by hand ... but as they say better than nutting !!!



ive seen hangers come off during a climb, and bolt failure while rare is not unknown ...

;)

So I guess frogs bail on two quicklinks!