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Climbing And Life Insurance Article - Reviews/Opinions

Original Post
Chris.Waterway · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

Hello, I recently wrote an article regarding the relationship between climbing and life insurance and would like your opinion and take on the subject.

I own a high risk life insurance agency where we insure people who have medical complications or participate in "risky" hobbies or occupations.

My goal of the article is to 1) make sure it is helpful for climbers in what they can expect when applying for life insurance 2) be sure the terms and statistics used are accurate.

Please take a look at the article and please give me any feedback. Also, if you have purchased life insurance as a climber please let me know your results and experience.

waterwayfinancialgroup.com/…

Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0

I purchased life insurance a little over a year ago from a large insurance company. They gave me the "preferred" rate because I have no medical conditions and the underwriter didn't did not charge extra even though I disclosed my "risky" behavior. If you want to know more, just PM me.

DesertRat · · Flagstaff, AZ · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 196

I do not pay extra for my Life Insurance either. I think if my company ever tried to incorporate a higher premium I would counter with statistics surrounding heart disease and point out that while on average, 25 people per year die rock climbing hundreds of thousands die each year from cardiovascular disease, a disease that is prevented by things such as rock climbing. In fact, now that I think about it, I should ask my insurance company for a discount.

JeffL · · Salt Lake City · Joined Jun 2012 · Points: 65

I fully agree with the above post that if you are competent and experienced you are very unlikely to die while climbing. Just be sure to read the fine print in your policy. You would be surprised how many activities are not covered in some plans.

Chris.Waterway · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0

I made sure to ask before posting this, I apologize if you feel this is an ad.

I am happy to hear many of you are not paying extra due to climbing. It is very dependent on the type of climbing you are doing as I'm sure you are aware of.

Chris.Waterway · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Sep 2014 · Points: 0
DesertRat wrote:I do not pay extra for my Life Insurance either. I think if my company ever tried to incorporate a higher premium I would counter with statistics surrounding heart disease and point out that while on average, 25 people per year die rock climbing hundreds of thousands die each year from cardiovascular disease, a disease that is prevented by things such as rock climbing. In fact, now that I think about it, I should ask my insurance company for a discount.
Insurance carriers will normally charge higher premiums above the "standard rate" when someone has heart conditions, or if severe enough they will issue a decline.

They also do look positively on those who exercise regularly.
David Tysinger · · Winston-Salem, NC · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 0

I took down my prior post. I was prolly being too judgemental. I would say most insurance companies have bigger issues than trying to determine how to risk base price for EXTREME sports.

I would suggest spending more time and money investigating claims/fraud.

Tom Mulholland · · #1 Cheese Producing State! · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 50

On a related topic, does anyone have experience with being charged more for HEALTH insurance? I agree that climbers are a lot less likely to die from climbing than other, ordinary things. What about the risk for serious injury and prolonged hospitalization?

Bill Kirby · · Keene New York · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 480

I can't get life insurance because I'm a drug addict. I'll never get insurance because I'm an addict. I've been clean for eight years and still no life insurance. These companies are there to make a profit. Live the life we say is safe or don't die hand to moufh.

Rframe · · Post Falls, ID · Joined Jul 2014 · Points: 55

My largest term policy I started many years ago prior to being engaged in any "risky" activities. Now I do some occasional climbing but on top of that I'm a certified flight instructor which is like the kiss of death for life insurance. If I were to buy or adjust any personal term policy now from general companies it would be cost prohibitive, but since my policy was already in effect the rates stay put as long as I do not change anything (on the policy).

Besides my personal policy, I grab up group term policies that are not subject to health screenings nor risky activities. I've never seen any of my employer-offered term life policies require a health screening nor any interview regarding activities and they are usually dirt cheap. You can own multiple policies, so even if they are limited in coverage you can combine several to build coverage loved ones need. Check employers first, then you'll find them offered as tag on products to all sorts of memberships and other accounts.

Also, the risky activities questions I've seen have had a 3-5 year window of engagement, so if you're no longer active those become less an issue after a few years.

PRRose · · Boulder · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 0
Tom Mulholland wrote:On a related topic, does anyone have experience with being charged more for HEALTH insurance? I agree that climbers are a lot less likely to die from climbing than other, ordinary things. What about the risk for serious injury and prolonged hospitalization?
That might have been possible prior to the Affordable Care Act (aka Obamacare). Pursuant to the ACA, and as of January 1, 2014, premiums for health insurance sold in the individual and small business markets can be based only on age, location, tobacco use, and family size.
Doug Hemken · · Madison, WI · Joined Oct 2004 · Points: 13,668

Tom, my experience has been that life insurers ask about potentially risky sports (but don't raise the premium table for the climbing I do), while health insurers do not ... but most of my health policies have been large group affairs.

That said, it was poorly scored health assessments that convince me to get out of the life insurance market. I thought their scoring was inconsistent and inaccurate.

CheesePatrol · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2009 · Points: 0

I attempted to purchase term life insurance this year. Everything about my application and medical testing (bloodwork, etc) placed me in the lowest-cost "preferred" rate category. Then they asked me if I had done any ice climbing in the past 2 years. My quoted rate went from $340 a year to $1200+ a year. My agent shopped me around to at least 8-10 different companies. Half of them wouldn't touch my application and the other half made $1200 look reasonable. Every company was very clear that the ice climbing was the only thing preventing me from getting the lowest rate. I got a second opinion from an entirely different agent, same results.

They did ask me detailed questions about my climbing. Types of safety equipment used, years of experience, formal training, etc. My style is as safe and cautious as they come.

The prices ended up putting insurance out of my budget entirely, not what I planned on. The only option for getting affordable life insurance at this point is to quit climbing and re-apply 2 years after.

I've read several accounts online of people getting fair insurance rates after being honest about their climbing activities. I really didn't expect to have the experience I did.

Paul Gagner · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2007 · Points: 71

Check out the American Alpine Club - they have a negotiated program for climbers:

•Climbing Friendly Life Insurance* We have partnered with the Nicholas Hill Benefit Group to assist members in their search for climbing friendly life insurance products. Through Nicholas Hill, you can submit your initial life insurance application for up to Five Million Dollars of coverage in as little as five minutes. Also available: simplified issue accident-only life insurance plans.

www.americanalpineclub.org

Drew_n Nichols · · Park City, UT · Joined Jul 2010 · Points: 20

Hello all,

A brief update on my 6-month odyssey to find life insurance. Some comments:

1. I tried the AAC approved site and several other agencies before finding success.
2. There is no rhyme or reason to how the different underwriters for the different companies work. In other words, underwriter 'A' for Company #1 may deny your application while underwriter 'B' will not. Even if they are filled out the same and include the same climbing disclosures.
3. Shopping seemed to help. There is an implied tone that you should only be shopping with one company at a time, which seems silly. I simply told folks "what other 20-year investment would a person make without shopping around?" That seemed to back them off.
4. I erred on the side of complete disclosure, I would hate for the family to get dinged if I bite it.
5. As a healthy 43 year old I eventually got a $1,000,000 policy for $1249/annually. Climbing is limited to below 10,000' and 5.12 or less (because, obviously, no one dies on 5.6).
6. I finally found a broker who 'got it' regarding climbing nomenclature and experiences. I found he was a bit more proactive than the AAC site. It seems as though having an agent who can 'predict' potential problems and engage with multiple underwriters is a key benefit. PM me if you would like contact information.

I hope that helps!

Ben Circello · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 95

I'm bumping this thread because I'm trying to get a feel for what's normal. I recently got a quote back from my insurance company (American Family) for 202.38 / month (~2400 annually) for 550K term life. I'm an otherwise fit, 36 yr old male.

This seems really high to me as I exclusively single pitch sport climb (up to 5.13)

Anyone have tips on how to get this down to a more reasonable amount (100/month or so)

Thanks,
Ben

Brendan Magee · · Parker, CO · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 0
Ben Circello wrote:I'm bumping this thread because I'm trying to get a feel for what's normal. I recently got a quote back from my insurance company (American Family) for 202.38 / month (~2400 annually) for 550K term life. I'm an otherwise fit, 36 yr old male. This seems really high to me as I exclusively single pitch sport climb (up to 5.13) Anyone have tips on how to get this down to a more reasonable amount (100/month or so) Thanks, Ben
That is insanely high. I have a 500K 30 year term life for around $75 a month. I got the policy last year when I was 29 and my health assessment was all excellent. I disclosed my climbing and they asked me a million questions regarding it. From the questions it's obvious the insurance industry doesn't understand this genre of activities at all. Ended up getting the "preferred" rate too.
H BL · · Colorado · Joined Feb 2006 · Points: 95

Ben- I sent you an email with some information that I didn't want to post.

Some questions: Did you do fully underwritten or simplified issue? I'm guessing F/U? Meaning someone came to your house to draw blood, urine, check weigh etc? If that's the case did you get the results yet? Show any problems? Do you know if something popped up on it? Are you a non smoker? Height/ weight within carrier guidelines? Any health issues within last 10 years? Heart issues, cancer, blood pressure, diabetes? Are you taking any meds on a continuing basis? If so how many? How many year term? Any additional riders added to the policy or is a flat plain jane term policy? Any return of premium? (Meaning at the end of the term you get all your money back) Not that you have to answer these here but some of the things that may have popped up.

There are many factors they look at when assessing risk (and life insurance companies do it quite well) someone for insurance especially on fully underwritten policies. Sometimes when a doctor codes things they are limited to what they can enter and/or it gets entered wrong. The insurance carriers have access to this info through the medical information bureau (MIB)

I never got rated higher for climbing. They generally assess this risk based off of length of time climbing, how often you climb, where you climb, what type of climbing you do, and if you've ever had instruction, and if you climb with someone etc.

I don't recommend lying about this stuff as if you die climbing within the first 2 years of the policy being issued they can deny the claim.

.

GTD · · Bowen island, BC, Canada · Joined May 2015 · Points: 5

I've had the se experience with insurance up here in Canada. I'm 37 and a fit non smoker. When I mentioned climbing I got the preferred rate of $230 Can. For a $700000 coverage. Only insight I can give is that I've had mortgage insurance with the same company for over 15yrs and they have no problem with me climbing. Paying $60 with disability for $400000

Matt N · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2010 · Points: 415

I couldn't find a more recent thread to bump (I swore there was one last year?) so I'm adding to this one:

Just got approved (awaiting final policy docs) for Pruco Life / Prudential:
20 year Term, $500k for $495 annual premiums

Went through term4sale.com and connected with two brokers who both recommended the same company/policy for the best price for what I wanted.

Great health, 36 y/o M, SCUBA and climbing were the issues. Otherwise premiums should have been closer to $280-350/yr, I think. Pruco had the least increase by far for those activities. Other companies wanted $2-3 per 1000 per year, so $1000-1500 increase over base rates.

Brenda Blatz · · Penticton, BC · Joined Feb 2021 · Points: 0

Hi I recommend Combined for accident Insurance, that Tom Mulhulland was asking about.

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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