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What's your size/range cutoff for micro cams?

Original Post
jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165

There's tons of threads out there about the relative merits of the myriad micro cams available on the market (e.g. X4s, Mastercams, Totem Basics, Fixe Aliens, TCUs, WC Zeros, etc). I'm curious, though, about what the upper range(s) are of micro cams that folks out there are racking.

At what point do you opt for a non-micro design (e.g. C4)? Is it a hard cutoff (e.g. "I like C4s down to 0.5, then fill-in-the-blank microcams below")? If so, around what range is the cutoff?

A blend ("I have X4s all the way up to 0.75 but overlap some C4s in that range")?

I know many (most of us?) have hodgepodge racks that we've accumulated over time and not purchased all at once with a particular idea in mind. But even if that's you, I'm curious about preferences out there.

Scot Hastings · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 35

Personally, I'm entirely willing to carry a bit of extra weight for the extra range and security of a double axle design. Thus I'm only interested in single axle or TCU smaller than the smallest double axle I know of, a 0.3 C4.

patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
wfscot wrote:Personally, I'm entirely willing to carry a bit of extra weight for the extra range and security of a double axle design.
What extra security? You must be kidding yourself here.

wfscot wrote:Thus I'm only interested in single axle or TCU smaller than the smallest double axle I know of, a 0.3 C4.
You are missing out on some great cams such as the Totems which have similar range, better grip, better in flares and narrower head. (Which matters alot on a 0.3C4.)

jaredj wrote:But even if that's you, I'm curious about preferences out there.
I have Totems down to 0.3BD size and BD/Dragons down to 0.3 as well. Though if buying now I'd probably replace my 0.3 and 0.4 with my preferred micro cam the Master Cam. I also own the Z2 which I love and there is nothing else covering the same size.
Kevin Neville · · Oconomowoc, WI · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 15

The 0.3 X4 (single axle) and 0.3 C4 (double axle) have significantly different ranges, about a half size different. I carry one of each and often reach for specifically one or the other, depending on the placement. In the larger sizes, X4's and C4's are very similar in range, though the X4's are narrower (particularly noticeable on the 0.4).

More generally, maybe I don't understand the OP's question.... "Micro" has to do with the size (expansion range), not the design. A 0.4 X4 is not a "micro cam" just because it has the same design as a 0.1.

eli poss · · Durango, CO · Joined May 2014 · Points: 525

When i bring a single rack, I bring my red alien rather than my .5 C4. Then it's orange TCU and WC zeros. I love the zeros because they combine the flexibility of aliens with the sizing of a lower cam angle.

jaredj · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 165
kevin neville wrote:More generally, maybe I don't understand the OP's question.... "Micro" has to do with the size (expansion range), not the design. A 0.4 X4 is not a "micro cam" just because it has the same design as a 0.1.
I suppose the question should be reworded to generalize to the differences in design (single axle vs double axle, head width, etc).
Kevin Neville · · Oconomowoc, WI · Joined Jun 2013 · Points: 15

As for what I carry:

X4s: 0.1, 0.2, 0.3, 0.75
C4s: 0.3 thru 3 or larger
Totem: 0.5
Mastercam offsets: 00/0 thru 3/4

The Totem is an experiment, favorable impressions but still making up my mind whether I want more. I really like offsets as my smaller "doubles".

Scot Hastings · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 35
patto wrote:What extra security? You must be kidding yourself here.
Double axle cams (at least the C4s, Dragons, and X4s >= 0.4) are rated full strength in passive mode. Single axle cams will universally umbrella in the same situation. In my book, that's a lot of extra security.

The expansion range is noticeably better, too. There's just no arguing with physics in the whole double vs single debate.
patto · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 25
wfscot wrote:Double axle cams (at least the C4s, Dragons, and X4s >= 0.4) are rated full strength in passive mode.
Which is largely a useless 'feature'. If you fall on a cam in passive mode you have already long ago screwed up.

wfscot wrote:Single axle cams will universally umbrella in the same situation.
They will not universally umbrella. The vast majority of single axle cams in non micro sizes have fully rated cam stops. This has been the case for a decade or so. Even WC Zeros have fully rated cam stops.

wfscot wrote:There's just no arguing with physics in the whole double vs single debate.
What physics are you referring to?

(Sure double axle designs are great but it has little to do with passive mode or "the physics". Range is their key advantage.)
Maynard · · Lisbon, ct · Joined Jul 2012 · Points: 1

I recently took a good size fall on a black alien as in next size down from blue, held fine. It gets my vote.

bearbreeder · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2009 · Points: 3,065

Full rated passive cams are useful in certain placements

Internally flaring cracks where you can just slott them in notably or gently connstricting cracks when you already used up the proper sizes nut down in the pitch or belay especially if you can get it as BOTH passive and active

One thing about climbing in the off season in squamish (or less travelled routes) is that the crack is sometimes grimy or slimy even after cleaning with the nut tool .... Working a cam into a placement that is both active and passive (if it slips) can save ur hide (limestone climbers tell me they look for such placements as well)

Sure everyone should bring tricams and hexes for those type of situations as well as a wirebrush on lead but who does that =P

That being said whether a cam is single or double axle is irrelevant to its passive rating .... All the current brit cams are passively rated and most are single axle

Them brits i hear have quite a bit of irregular rock and slick limestone ... Probably why they make their cams as passive as well

Micro size IMO is whatever size you no longer feel confident due to the size ...

;)

Spencer BB · · Pasadena, CA · Joined Dec 2013 · Points: 23

I don't really think of the purple and green c4's as microcams but think that this is the transition point for me between C4's and x4's - the green x4 feels too floppy for me so I prefer the c4 in this size but for the purple, the narrower head of the x4 also shines.

Scot Hastings · · Salt Lake City, UT · Joined Apr 2013 · Points: 35
patto wrote:Which is largely a useless 'feature'. If you fall on a cam in passive mode you have already long ago screwed up.
Nah. I don't do it often, but I will occasionally set a cam passively. I've also encountered placements where an active placement is backed up by a passive constriction.

patto wrote:They will not universally umbrella. The vast majority of single axle cams in non micro sizes have fully rated cam stops. This has been the case for a decade or so. Even WC Zeros have fully rated cam stops.
I stand corrected on that. I didn't realize how many single axle designs now have full-strength stops. Thanks for clearing that up.

patto wrote:What physics are you referring to? (Sure double axle designs are great but it has little to do with passive mode or "the physics". Range is their key advantage.)
I was simply referring to the range advantage.
Sam Stephens · · PORTLAND, OR · Joined Jan 2010 · Points: 1,090

I carry down to a single bd .75, complimented with a red tcu for narrow placements, and then double aliens red to green, and single 0 and 00 master cams. The range versus head width between a bd .5 and a red alien is ridiculous. Nearly identical range and almost half the head width. It's a no brainer.

20 kN · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2009 · Points: 1,346
wfscot wrote:Personally, I'm entirely willing to carry a bit of extra weight for the extra range and security of a double axle design. Thus I'm only interested in single axle or TCU smaller than the smallest double axle I know of, a 0.3 C4.
While I have a .3 and .4 C4, I typically never carry the .3, and only sometimes carry the .4. Above .4, all my cams are full-size Camalots. So to answer your question, the line is drawn around .4/.5 for me. That said, I would be willing to ditch my .5 and .75 C4s for .5 and .75 X4s if I somehow acquired a bunch for free. But there is little need for me to spend money to buy them when my C4s work fine in that size.

My standard double rack:

1x Black Alien
2x Blue - grey Alien
1x .4
2x .5 - #2
#3 and above are all dependent on the route
1x set of nuts
Maybe 10 trad draws or so

However, in reality I just end up bringing whatever the topo says I need to bring. I try to focus more on spliter cracks than adventure-type trad climbs, so it's usually a custom rack for every route.
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

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