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New bolts at Crow Hill

S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

Shoes are considered aid by the Smith Bros!

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
Nick Goldsmith wrote: yo , yo was the way it was done early eightys at least. it was a team effort. leader went as high as they could and got some gear in. Lower off and annother member of the party would tie in, climb back up to the high point and see if they could get the rope/ gear up higher on the route. I participated in this in Colorado in 86 and knew that was how things were done in the gunks and heard Red rocks as well. The damn wimpy sport climbers are the ones who ruined it by insisting that the rope had to be pulled after every attempt.
Yo yo was not how it was done in the early eighties anywhere I climbed. But you could tell it was starting to turn by the late eighties and early nineties because before that in Eldo and the Gunks you heard people yelling "falling" all day, then it transitioned to about half "falling" and about half "take" and for years now you mainly hear people yelling "take" all day and only rarely hear "falling".

To each his own, but the whole 'dog, dog, dog, dog, redpoint, next' thing barely qualifies as climbing to me let alone trad climbing. Might as well rename the sport to, "Hey, want go hanging out CH today". But then I'm am definitely an old curmudgeon and will retire to surfing before I let that become climbing to me.
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
Healyje wrote: Yo yo was not how it was done in the early eighties anywhere I climbed. But you could tell it was starting to turn by the late eighties and early nineties because before that in Eldo and the Gunks you heard people yelling "falling" all day, then it transitioned to about half "falling" and about half "take" and for years now you mainly hear people yelling "take" all day and only rarely hear "falling". .
Then there are the people who push their limits and are so focused they say nothing. This is where real climbing lies.

And no, none of that over-rehearsed shit is trad. We should make a new name to delineate the concept.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
J Q wrote: Then there are the people who push their limits and are so focused they say nothing. This is where real climbing lies. And no, none of that rehearsed shit is trad. We should make a new name to delineate the concept.
Apparently the guy doesn't get out much anymore, he is obviously spending way too much time at the mall. Take take take!!!!! I said take!!!!
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
T Roper wrote: Apparently the guy doesn't get out much anymore, he is obviously spending way too much time at the mall. Take take take!!!!! I said take!!!!
Huh? I don't say a word when I fall off. My belay partner doesn't need me to. Perhaps I am confused, perhaps you need to learn how to write, perhaps I need some psychedelics to understand. Old age is a bitch.
M Mobley · · Bar Harbor, ME · Joined Mar 2006 · Points: 911
J Q wrote: Huh? I don't say a word when I fall off. My belay partner doesn't need me to. Perhaps I am confused, perhaps you need to learn how to write, perhaps I need some psychedelics to understand. Old age is a bitch.
Perhaps we are both conversing about the same guy and we dont even know it?

Die thread die.

New thread- assholes in WA who are going nuts with bolted protection. Everyone in Mass is welcome to chime in
Jonathan Haggerty · · West Acton, MA · Joined Mar 2014 · Points: 195
Healyje wrote: Yo yo was not how it was done in the early eighties anywhere I climbed. But you could tell it was starting to turn by the late eighties and early nineties because before that in Eldo and the Gunks you heard people yelling "falling" all day, then it transitioned to about half "falling" and about half "take" and for years now you mainly hear people yelling "take" all day and only rarely hear "falling". To each his own, but the whole 'dog, dog, dog, dog, redpoint, next' thing barely qualifies as climbing to me let alone trad climbing. Might as well rename the sport to, "Hey, want go hanging out CH today". But then I'm am definitely an old curmudgeon and will retire to surfing before I let that become climbing to me.
Holy hell! Healyje, buzz off! Your tangents and absolutes about aren't helping anyone. The best points youve made in the last few weeks have been in regards to community policy.

Learn from your self and let the community police itself.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

In the midd eightys we did not have to pull the rope after every attempt. It was a TEAM effort and if one member of the TEAM got the rope higher on the pitch that counted as a gain for the TEAM. Maybe Henry was responsible for the start of the ME era?

Morgan Patterson · · NH · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 8,945
Nick Goldsmith wrote: Maybe Henry was responsible for the start of the ME era?
Interesting twist...
S. Neoh · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Oct 2009 · Points: 35

Which style and what type of pro was used during FFA of Jane by HHB? Al? Eric?

Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
Nick Goldsmith wrote:In the midd eightys we did not have to pull the rope after every attempt. It was a TEAM effort and if one member of the TEAM got the rope higher on the pitch that counted as a gain for the TEAM. Maybe Henry was responsible for the start of the ME era?
No, Henry was doing what was always done - pulling the rope after every go and keeping it clean. The transition from that ethic to not pulling it and on to dogging your way up shit came throughout the late eighties as sport started to get traction. I have no doubt you may have been in the early vanguard, but that has nothing whatsoever to do with TEAM vs ME and every thing to do with personal [clean, onsight] ethics or abandonment thereof. If anything, the current 'dog, dog, dog, readpoint, next' along with mindless grid bolting 'development' is the very definition and essence of the I-gotta-have-it-now-without-any-effort-or-risk ME mentality which swept the sport. Personally, in that change I'd rather be the last holdout than one of the point men.
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
Healyje wrote:If anything, the current 'dog, dog, dog, readpoint, next' along with mindless grid bolting 'development' is the very definition and essence of the I-gotta-have-it-now-without-any-effort-or-risk ME mentality which swept the sport. Personally, in that change I'd rather be the last holdout than one of the point men.
Go down swinging! We will lose in the end. Someday, all this talk will cease and the "development" will be complete. There are too many of THEM. Only a few private or government-protected cliffs won't shine with the array of hangers that will be splattered across most places.

Crow Hill will be a sad sight, no doubt. It'll be a terrible thing. And THEY will be proud.
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
DGoguen wrote:Through the 90's to mid 2000's I maintained the fixed gear for the most part. When the first bolting of "Dune " was chopped in the mid 90's, for some reason they chopped"A Fool on the Hill" as well. I replaced those bolts and added another bolt to the corner anchor as well as the chains. The chains didn't bother me because you couldn't see them from the ground. Every Spring I replaced the slings on the "Jane" anchor and every few years the three pins. It seemed to me that bolts and chains would be offensive there. I added a chain through the thread on "Intertwine" because again it wasn't visible from below. I replaced the pins on "Thin Line" three times one season when they were being removed. I replaced the crux pins on Tarzan, Watusi, Lizard Head, and a few others. With others, installed the anchors along the top of the practice face to mitigate erosion that just wasn't sustainable. I added the hidden bolted chain anchor at the top of "Thin Line" as people topping out rained gravel on climbers at the base.
Another person who gets the the simple and obvious notion all fixed pro needs to be maintained.

DGoguen wrote:What's my point? I hear people at many crags say something like "they" should do this or "someone" should do that. It's us.
And that takes time, money, and effort and that's time which could have been spent climbing so by and large it rarely happens on an individual basis let alone an organized one. I think the place they do it best is out in Eldo with ACE

Eldo ACE fixed pro review page
Healyje · · PDX · Joined Jan 2006 · Points: 422
DGoguen wrote: Not the first time I've been called both simple or obvious.
I've been called worse for the same effort.
Dash rip rock · · Keene NH · Joined Jan 2013 · Points: 10

I too had my first climbing experience @ CW (1984) and have visited the cliff, several times, almost every year since. It's basic unchanged nature has made the climbing experience @ crow great. The allure of climbing has always been to push our physical and mental boundaries. With climbing gyms, guide services and introduction to climbing in elementary schools, climbing is moving to a main stream activity and away from it's origins of the lunatic fringe. People climb for different reasons, but to make all climbing safe and convenient would certainly water down the essence of the activity. I like the idea that each area has a different character, and that the character of the area be governed by the local climbing community. The local community might not all agree, but with organisations such as WMCC and MCA, which can unify opinions, pressure can be applied to ensure that the character of each area be upheld.

mattyo Yo · · Boston, Massachusetts · Joined Aug 2010 · Points: 5

I just free soloed Dune dry tooling it with a piolet. I'm claiming that to be the most difficult ascent to date. I only hooked the old bolt scars once. So it was pretty pure.

I'd grade it a M8+~!!#%@ though that have just been the humidity.

Since I'm now the coolest guy to touch the route, I claim rights to bolt it but I'm gonna put ribbons on each bolt so no one else can use them.

Suck it.

Piolet da of dune

Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

Climbing started with mountain climbing. The idea that mountain climbers would reverse upward progress by pulling the rope is pretty funny. Not shure when that silly practice started but it most likly did not come from real mountain climbers. If i had to venture a guess i would pin it on the silly britts trying to squeeze the most sport out of their little rocks by comming up with a bunch of rules on how it must be done to be sporting..

DavidLG · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2011 · Points: 20
Nick Goldsmith wrote:Climbing started with mountain climbing. The idea that mountain climbers would reverse upward progress by pulling the rope is pretty funny. Not shure when that silly practice started but it most likly did not come from real mountain climbers. If i had to venture a guess i would pin it on the silly britts trying to squeeze the most sport out of their little rocks by comming up with a bunch of rules on how it must be done to be sporting..
I think you have raised the bar on spicy with your last statements Nick, sit back and enjoy the continuous array of fireworks that have been launched with this thread.
J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
UncleBen wrote: Go down swinging! We will lose in the end. Someday, all this talk will cease and the "development" will be complete. There are too many of THEM. Only a few private or government-protected cliffs won't shine with the array of hangers that will be splattered across most places. Crow Hill will be a sad sight, no doubt. It'll be a terrible thing. And THEY will be proud.
Not as proud as you are over contrived rules and acting macho. Ethics and dogma is a joke dude, because they are completely personal and situational.
Nick Goldsmith · · Pomfret VT · Joined Aug 2009 · Points: 440

They are so situational its absolutely hilarious. We did the 2nd ascent of a rt by one of the old school hardmen who is sometimes used as the gold standard of trad climbing ethics in these internet arguments. The last pitch was blatantly chipped. No complaining here as i would never have made the top without the enhancement and its a cool as heck location but it also drives home the fact that almost everyone has some skeletons in their closet if you did deep enough. The guys who try to come off as perfect ethics police are probably just as guilty;)

Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Northeastern States
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