Overnight pack you're willing to wear while leading?

Nick Drake wrote: No just throw them in the pack, lots of room once the rack or rope come out. With the frame sheet out of it's sleeve and not securely held in by the two velcro straps at the top the pack is more flexible. I know a lot of people prefer to have no frame sheet, but I find the carry terrible no matter how I try to distribute the weight w/o a sheet (yeah I've seen the cilo videos).

Have you actually done this, or is this hypothesizing?

I recently got a Patagonia Acentionist 45l that I used for a recent Tetons climbing trip. Its holds plenty of gear for an overnight or two but really compresses well for climbing.

First climb was a c2c ascent of the grand, kept the framesheet in which was a little a annoying.

second climb was after a hike in/bivy. Carried rack and bivy gear well, removed frame sheet and worked really well for the climb. I think the 35l and 45l are both good choices for a climbing pack suitable for carrying bivy gear.

the biggest pro's of this pack are its ability to carry heavy loads and be overloaded well and that is really shrinks down to a reasonable size for climbing.

The Lowe Alpine Alpine Attack 35L is a great pack. I have the 45L version and this line of alpine-focused packs doesn't get enough credit. The material's are bomber, they're super light and they come with features that really work well in real-life use. Another MPer guided me to Lowe Alpine & I've been very happy with mine.

I dont like climbing routes with a pack, especially if it's a crack. I dont know what the deal is, but even light packs seem to really throw my balance off on crack climbs. I can still climb with a pack, it's just noticeably much more annoying and less fun.

Personally, what I do is I try to keep as much stuff on my harness as I can. That doesent bother me the same way a pack does. What cannot go on my harness goes in a pack and the second carries it (the leader never carries a pack; consider it motivation to lead). If the route is 5.12 or harder, we haul the pack on the 5.12 pitches with 6mm cordletee, even for the second. Pitches of that difficulty level are typically vertical enough that you can hand-over-hand the pack with some light 6mm in only a minute. It's well worth the extra effort. The 6mm doubles as a tag line to get back down too.

I see parties go up grade IV routes with both the leader and follower carrying a 35L pack stuffed to the brim. That's absolutely ludicrous. Go light and fast. Unless you're in an alpine environment with a high probability of weather, stick with the gear, water, some light snacks, one jacket for the belayer, and motor on. No need to bring the entire house.

Buy a pulley and haul. I recently led a super easy pitch with 30 lbs on my back. Never doing that again.

fossana wrote:I have used an older generation 30L for multi-day alpine. It's light, but tore (as did my Cilogear) with only soft stuff inside.

I have one as well, and you are exactly right. I think they were headed in the right direction, but that whole generation of packs was too soft and easy to tear.

So the tally so far (my vote is for the mtn scrambler)

# = vote/preffered pack

BD Speed 5
Moutain hardware scrambler 3
Cilogear 3
Deuter guide 2
Patagonia ascensionist 1
Osprey variant 1
Lowe alpine attack 1

Your tally above left out the one vote for the Cold Cold World Chernobyl, which would have been my top pick until this year. Now, I feel that Mammut Trion Light 40L and 55L packs are the ones to beat for this application. They are very light, well featured and carry better than any other packs that have used. But, as this thread has demonstrated, no one seems to know about them.

On route they can be stripped down by removing the brain and the padded hip belt leaving only a 1" webbing belt remaining. There is a single compression strap that secures the brain but when the brain is removed there is a second female fastex buckle below the brain to receive this compression strap. This is a small but brilliant design feature that helps compress the pack, allows carrying a rope on top, and the strap doesn't swing around unattached sans brain.

I love everything about these packs except the roll top closure (like a dry bag) which ArcTeryx is also using on their FL packs. The roll top is more waterproof, faster and easier to pack compared to a draw string, but doesn't extend as much so you need to buy a bigger pack compare to one with a large extension sleeve.

How much do I love the Trion Light packs? After a big alpine trip last weekend with my Trion Light 55, I came home and immediately sold my CCW Chernobyl and CiloGear 30L. (Still think Cold Cold World packs are great, never understood the mad love for CiloGear packs which I think are really overrated).

One word. Manspooning.

jaredj wrote: Have you actually done this, or is this hypothesizing?

BD speed 40, no lid, frame sheet out of slot and waist belt off. I'm not sure what would sound doubtful about this, you either carry the rack or the rope on the way, once they are out you have a lot of room left. Sorry no one got a good picture of me leading or stripping the fluff off the pack, you'll just have to take my word for it.

That's on the north ridge of Stuart complete a few weeks ago, if you don't simul the easy stuff it's supposed to be 30 pitches. We bivied on route, but that just consisted of a 11 ounce bivy sack, pad, and my puffy. No stove, no sleeping bag since it was warm.

ColeT wrote:So the tally so far (my vote is for the mtn scrambler) # = vote/preffered pack BD Speed 5 Moutain hardware scrambler 3 Cilogear 3 Deuter guide 2 Patagonia ascensionist 1 Osprey variant 1 Lowe alpine attack 1

Cole try on the packs before you buy, or save up and order a few online then return the others. Eveyone's body is different, some packs will fit others better.

On the latest speed BD combined the shoulder straps where they attach to the top of the pack, it's basically a large U behind your neck. If you have larger trap muscles this can be uncomfortable on your neck, I have a problem as do a few partners with similar build.

The pataguchi actually fits my shoulders better and will probably be my next pack. The biner clip on the flap (it doesn't have a true lid) is really nice for clipping in at a belay also. I have a short torso and found that cilo packs don't fit me well, if you're more of a tall lanky type I hear great things, lots of partners love them.

That dead bird pack is also worth checking out, it starts stripped down and the fabric seems to be more abrasion resistant than it's peers of similar weight.

Doug Hutchinson wrote:never understood the mad love for CiloGear packs which I think are really overrated).

Did you get familiar with the different strap configurations to change how the load carries? That's where they pull far ahead of the rest, IMHO.

I did the Upper Exum of the Grand Teton this last weekend using the BD Epic 45. Worked out great, although I packed my DSLR in a small Lowe pro case on the hip belt. The pack was fully loaded on hike up to the lower saddle. For the summit climb, I removed waist belt and top lid. Camera, rope and gear all went back into the pack. Worked out great.

I just strap my camel back mule to my big bag and then use it on my lead, assuming I have a base camp. I only do this in the alpine though.

Stevee B wrote: Did you get familiar with the different strap configurations to change how the load carries? That's where they pull far ahead of the rest, IMHO.

I found all the different straps configurations and too numerous attachment points annoying and never could dial it in just right. But I know lots of people LOVE Cilo packs - different strokes...

Nick Drake wrote: BD speed 40, no lid, frame sheet out of slot...

Thanks for the reply. I had never thought of carrying framesheet to support the pack on the hike in, and then taking it out (but still carrying framesheet in the pack on the climb up) so the pack "hugs" your back better. My dubiousness earlier was about carrying the framesheet in the pack but not against the back; they're usually so big / bulky that I had a hard time picturing it as fitting in this fashion and not making the whole package unwieldy.

i figure you have tons of info at this point so you dont need another pack to investigate. but i did see the pack i use mentioned a few times so its worth giving it another positive review.

i use the patagonia alpine ascentionist 45l for alpine climbs, backpack in climbs etc. its worked very well for me. at first i was worried how the pack would handle abuse due to the light weight material but ive scraped up against some sharp granite chimneys and had no tears or anything.

the axe holder is the best ive seen and keeps the pick tucked away but easy to remove with a buckle. this comes in use for ice climbing or glacier/steep snow approaches. i did climb in bugaboos where we carried our mountaineering boots, layers, axes etc up the climb and this pack worked very well for that.

doesnt have exterior pockets and the lid is small. both were things i thought would be bigger deals than it ended up being.

have a nice, sleek, light and rugged pack is what i wanted and what i got.

ps, has a removable frame if youre into that

jaredj wrote: Thanks for the reply. I had never thought of carrying framesheet to support the pack on the hike in, and then taking it out (but still carrying framesheet in the pack on the climb up) so the pack "hugs" your back better. My dubiousness earlier was about carrying the framesheet in the pack but not against the back; they're usually so big / bulky that I had a hard time picturing it as fitting in this fashion and not making the whole package unwieldy.

Well it definitely does not collapse as well with the framesheet sitting agains the outside of the pack. I do have a pretty significant curve in my lumbar though (which is probably why I feel the need to use a frame sheet in the first place), so flipping the sheet around (side which would be toward your back in sleeve facing the outsdie surface of the pack) made a nice radius at the bottom, while also making for the top of the frame sheet being lower.

I might try using a thin closed cell pad in the sleeve as a frame sheet and just leaving that there if I were doing routes like this more often. If it carries well enough that would be a nicer package climbing, faster, and gives you some more padding at the bivy.

I'll throw in another vote for the BD Speed packs. I have a Speed 30, and I love it. When it's not overly weighted, I find the reactiv suspension allows the pack, even with the framesheet in, to move with my back better than a traditional pack. Also, the storm collar allows you to overstuff it by a lot, probably gives you an extra 10-12 L of space, so effectively a 40 L pack on the way in, and then you can totally strip it down (framesheet, lid, hipbelt off) for the climb if you prefer.

The trick is to just not bring all the crap you don't actually need so that everything fits in a 30-40 liter pack, at which point you have plenty of options (I love my TNF Prophet 40). Unless it's going to be below 30 degrees you don't need a sleeping bag and unless it's going to rain you don't need a tent. You don't really ever need a inflatable mattress. Being cold and uncomfortable builds character.