new cams?

headead wrote: And how exactly are they 'lost and forgotten'? i'd love to hear your answer

In terms of the amount of coverage their upcoming Ultralight Mastercams have gotten from the people who report back from/blog about the 2 summer gear shows we just had.

BD's new Camalot Ultralights got lots of coverage

DMM's modified Dragons got coverage

Wild Country's new Friends got coverage

Metolius's Ultralight Mastercams got.....

Khoi wrote: In terms of the amount of coverage their upcoming Ultralight Mastercams have gotten from the people who report back from/blog about the 2 summer gear shows we just had. BD's new Camalot Ultralights got lots of coverage DMM's modified Dragons got coverage Wild Country's new Friends got coverage Metolius's Ultralight Mastercams got.....

Plenty of Gear Blog coverage prior to the shows this summer. They were announced in the spring (late March?) and saw their news cycle earlier this year. Unless an announced piece is a REALLY big deal and takes more than one "show cycle" to reach market, it's rare to see double coverage of items at shows as words and "print space" are at a premium.

Also note, Wild Country is continuing production of the HELIUM Friends that keep the traditional sizing range so no loss of the "tweener" sizing. I believe DMM Demons do this as well.

I'll have to hold an ultralight to see if it wows me. The new Friends seem to offer everything I've wanted in the larger cam size so it will come down to weight vs full features when I need to replace aging gear.

Khoi wrote: In terms of the amount of coverage their upcoming Ultralight Mastercams have gotten from the people who report back from/blog about the 2 summer gear shows we just had. BD's new Camalot Ultralights got lots of coverage DMM's modified Dragons got coverage Wild Country's new Friends got coverage Metolius's Ultralight Mastercams got.....

The mastercams got covered in the previous shows, from basically everyone covering those shows. They weren't new for this show, so they won't show up in "new stuff at OR" blogs.

They are also not really direct competitors for the new BD/WC/DMM cams, since they are mostly in the small cam range, so people making comparisons won't include them.

Apples and oranges.

shoo wrote: The mastercams got covered in the previous shows, from basically everyone covering those shows. They weren't new for this show, so they won't show up in "new stuff at OR" blogs. They are also not really direct competitors for the new BD/WC/DMM cams, since they are mostly in the small cam range, so people making comparisons won't include them. Apples and oranges.

They also have orders booked out the ying-yang for a small company.

A room full of gear sluts so I fit right in. ;)

Metolius power cams and tcus are their best offering imo. I had a set of Master Cams but they suffered from durability issues. Primarily they need to improve the trigger cables and incorporate a sleeve of some sort. Those things get really worked in horizontals.

The range overlap, weight, strength, and compactness of power cams makes them the best cam for backcountry pursuits.

WC/DMM are all chasing the double axle and ultralight craze and are changing their designs out of principle based on marketing. No noticeable improvement over C4's imo.

As for WC, I've had a set of Heliums and I busted a spring on the #1.5 after not even 2 years of use as a weekend warrior. I love the feel on the ground with the thumb loop but the springs are light duty. Rigid friends last for 20 years+ at less weight, are more stable, and are stronger in horizontals if tied off. Rigids and C4's are more than enough for me.

Will check out the new lighter Camalots next year, especially since BD says they can last as long as a C4, but we'll see. The weight savings are significant.

Any word on a release date for these yet?

In my boredom I did some calculations on the weight differences between the ultralight and the C4's in case anyone else was wondering.

Black Diamond Ultralight
.4 Grey 15.5-26.7 - 8Kn - 61 g – 2.15 oz $89.95 (.78 oz Diff)
.5 Purple 19.6-33.5 - 10Kn - 74g – 2.61 oz $89.95 (.88 oz Diff)
.75 Green 23.9-41.2 - 12kn - 3.1 oz $89.95 (1.08 oz Diff)
1 Red 30.2-52.1 - 12Kn - 3.6 oz $89.95 (1.2 oz Diff)
2 Yellow 37.2-64.9 - 12Kn - 4.5 oz $99.95 (.97 oz Diff)
3 Blue 50.7-87.9 – 12Kn - 5.9 oz $109.95 (1.2 oz Diff)
4 Grey 66-114.7 - 12 Kn - 7.94 oz $129.95 (2.26 oz Diff)

Jfriday1 wrote:Any word on a release date for these yet? In my boredom I did some calculations on the weight differences between the ultralight and the C4's in case anyone else was wondering.

For scale, an ounce is roughly the weight of an ultralight carabiner (BD Oz, Petzl Ange S, WC Helium are all around this weight).

For a "typical" rack of cams consisting of #.3-#2, doubles in .75-2), using ultralights vs. C4s yields a weight savings of about 8 oz, or roughly a half pound. That's equivalent to about a 1/4 liter of water, or 2/3 the weight of a can of beer (including the can).

That's not exactly mind-blowing weight savings, and definitely not even close worth upgrading for if you already have serviceable cams. It might, however, be worth the additional money if you're buying new, especially for the alpine-oriented.

Does this mean price drops for the C4 when the new model arrives?

Chase D wrote:Does this mean price drops for the C4 when the new model arrives?

Price drops in climbing equipment? Surely you jest.

shoo wrote: Price drops in climbing equipment? Surely you jest.

yeah...wishful thinking I'm sure

hahahah! for the weight savings... those prices are a joke

Andrew Mayer wrote:So it sounds like/appears the new Friends match BD sizing? That's an interesting move in my mind, since THE ONLY selling points of Friends was the in-between sizing with BD.

Butchered your quote, but seriously... the #4 friend is something to marvel at. They need to keep making it.

I for one am not excited about any of these cams... Not Met UL, Not BD UL, Not new Friends, the only thing exciting is the new surface finishing proposed for the dragons... that looks smart.

I want to pick up a couple of the new BD ones just to try them. Surprised there's no release info by now.

I got the #8 UL Mastercam just for kicks and it is an awesome cam! Superlight. Metolius has done a great update on the design. I don't miss the thumb loop, it's very ergonomic without.

Glad you like it brandon. I was dubious of them myself, I have enough cams to to live vicariously through your purchase.

Chase D wrote:Does this mean price drops for the C4 when the new model arrives?

No, I already asked.

Nathanael wrote:I want to pick up a couple of the new BD ones just to try them. Surprised there's no release info by now.

A few sites have them for pre-order. I contacted MEC about a shipping date, and they replied that they expect to ship pre-order BD ULs the first or second week of February.

Locker wrote:I messed with a few of the new BD cams a week or so back. They are lighter than the previous versions. Other than that I personally don't dig the "Improvement". I'll stick with my older gear as it will no doubt last longer than I will anyway. ;-)

What about it did you not like? Did it feel different in some way other than the weight?

The light duty axle boss is going to Crack before the dieneema be ones an issue. If you actually fall on your gear that's the point of failure I would expect.

Khoi wrote:Poor Metolius... getting lost in the crowd and forgotten... Maybe those guys gotta hustle a bit more...

I'd be curious how the bd and metolius hand sized pieces compare. Specifically how the #2 UL C4 compares to metolius' #7@ 112g. That is so light... Lighter than their u stems...