Sport Climbing with Unequally Weighted Climbers

So here's the situation:
--Me: 6'5" 220lbs, climbing 20+ years sport / trad / ice / alpine / ski mountaineering. I know my shizzy. 5% body fat, dropping weight isn't really an option...
--Primary climbing partner: 5'6" 130 lbs. Sport / trad almost as long, also v experienced. Worked in a climbing gym for nearly a decade.
--Friend I'm teaching climbing: 5'5" 125 lbs. Super new to climbing, but athletic. Have taken them a few times, they're up to toproping 9+/10-, excited to get more adventurous (eventually perhaps leading trad / ice / etc).

As you can see, there are some major physical mismatches going on (anatomical mismatch, one might say). Me not decking and me being able to give a soft catch are the primary issues I'm wondering about. Basically, if I fall at the first bolt (or especially going to the second), my partner gets a speedball into the first bolt and I end up on the ground (if we don't collide en route).

My current strategies with my experienced friend:
--When I'm belaying them: intentionally stand a couple feet back from the route so that I get pulled in a bit, make the vectors work in our favor. Additionally, focus on giving a super-soft catch and jumping into catches (often belay with an ATC instead of gri to accentuate the effect).
--When they're belaying me: build trad anchors to take an upward pull. Otherwise, they stand DIRECTLY under the first bolt, wear close toed shoes, and use a gri. In addition, any route that I might want to climb that has a low crux or ledge fall potential is off limits. Stick clip 2nd bolt whenever possible. They must wear gloves--lowering can get exciting.

Question #1: How would you communicate these ideas to a newer climber, besides yanking them into the first bolt a few times until they get the idea?

Question #2: Better ideas?

So...does anyone have any particularly effective strategies for these sorts of climber/belayer weight differences? When trad climbing, building an upward pull anchor is usually feasible. It seems impractical when sport climbing (have to carry along a trad rack, routes are usually bolted because there aren't places to plug gear). I've toyed with the idea of sticking everyone's spare gear (and perhaps a couple rocks) into a backpack and having the belayer clip into it (a la climbing gym sandbags), but I'm really hoping for better ideas. I've even considered carrying along a 50lb weight vest for them, but that's probably even a harder sell. It would be really nice for me to get to lead routes that actually push me...

TL;DR: What do you do when there's a 50+ lbs difference in weight between belayer and climber?

I sit at 200 pounds. And i have the same issue. partner stands at 170 so not as drastic but I have been soft decked a few times.

The things I do are very similar and not sure what else you really can do.

-stick clip when crux is low
-grigri is not a must but it makes me more comfortable
-stand directly under first bolt

bad habits i have is constant struggle with how much I weigh when i should just focus on climbing.

new point i would like to try is climbing with a partner at similar weight especially for my projects.

I have thought about maybe having someone hold onto the belayer until I clip the 3rd bolt....but that seems like a hassle and a mess.

If you have a haul bag, you could put a bunch of rocks in it, and anchor your belayer to that (on the brakehand side).

I was doing that with my pack, but pack wasn't rugged enough for long-term rock stuffing. Now I look for a tree. Guaranteed hard catch tho. Not a lot of 200+ lb guys out there climbing.

Oohh, liking the haul bag idea...would hate to trash my Miura 50 by stuffing it with rocks and having it get yanked around...

I've also messed a bit with trying to match rope specs to situation (stretchy soft ropes for belaying light people, try to get low stretch and low max impact for belaying me). Can't say I've ever been able to quantify a difference though...

These threads pop up every so often, and it's curious to me that it always seems to be from the point of view of the heavier climber. Not trying to make a statement about that, just find it interesting.

Any climber who weighs 125lb. knows how to belay a heavier climber, because the odds are they are almost always climbing with heavier partners. From there it's just a matter of degrees. Sometimes it's important to build an anchor to keep the belayer from being pulled up, sometimes you can provide a perfectly safe belay even if it might mean meeting your climber in the middle in mid-air. And there might be times when it's not feasible/safe to build an anchor AND there is danger of hitting ledges somewhere on the pitch - you might sometimes have to recognize that it's not the right route for your climbing team. But generally your belayer knows better than you do what they need to give a safe belay, and how to belay safely for BOTH team members should be a team decision. I think if anyone ever told me I absolutely MUST wear gloves/ wear a 50lb. weight vest/ use a grigri/ tie myself to a backpack full of rocks, I'd politely tell them they needed to find a different partner.

Em Cos wrote:These threads pop up every so often, and it's curious to me that it always seems to be from the point of view of the heavier climber. Not trying to make a statement about that, just find it interesting.

Decking or the fear of decking a a really good motivator.

Question 1:
I don't have these issues for the most part. Fairly average sized climber. It seems that you want to secure your belayer and get to climbing and hopefully they'll grow and learn. They probably will. I'm thinking you've already been doing this, only climbing a few feet and telling them you're jumping and let them catch you. Then progressively go higher or stop telling them you're jumping. I'm sure they'll get better, however the weight still remains and they'll still get yanked.
I'm not nearly as learned as you, but could you anchor some biners low to the ground to run the rope through to make the catch easier? Not sure that's a good idea. Rope drag might be an issue. Good luck!

Unless you are on anabolics, and are in contest prep mode, you are no where near 220 at 5% body fat.

I'm 6'4" 220# and I'm phat... how are you at 5% body fat? 20%-25% would seem a more realistic # ... You'd need to way less than like 170# to be at that number. When I was racing road bikes I was 185# and still like 15-18%.

Assuming your climbing single pitch, if you're worried bout yanking up your belayer and there are trees at the base, tie the other end of the rope to a tree (bowline w/ stopper) and clove into your belayer's haul loop at the correct length (situationally dependent).

This anchors them to the ground w/o any additional gear (other than a spare locker) and, given the dynamic element of the rope, shouldn't hurt their back even in the event of a very hard fall.

Eric Carlos wrote:Unless you are on anabolics, and are in contest prep mode, you are no where near 220 at 5% body fat.

Awwww shit Fink, you mentioned the dreaded low body fat % claim. People on here can't resist arguing about body fat percentiles. Never mind that it has absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand. Carry on Mr. super low body fat percentage disputing guys. (future Bud Light commercial)

Fink wrote:6'5" 220lbs... 5'6" 130 lbs... 5'5" 125 lbs

Obvious solution: attach the one hobbit to the other hobbit with duct tape or a bit of twine, and once combined they will be a suitable weight to belay you.

Anchoring the belayer via their haul loop is not a good idea as it will cause there harness to squeeze their internal organs HARD. Much better to anchor to the belay loop (below the belay device). Then when they are yanked up eventually all the weight ends up on the anchor with them basically hanging there as the anchor line and rope come taught against each other with the belay loop in the middle. They probably want to set up so that they are perpendicular and facing the line that forms between the anchor and 1st bolt so they they don't spin as it comes tight.

I'm 6'1", 200# and my wife (primary partner) is 5'4", 125# FWIW

matt c. wrote: Decking or the fear of decking a a really good motivator.

True, good point. My thought was that small belayers have been belaying heavier climbers since first learning to belay, and to them it's just belaying, and doesn't seem like a confusing or complicated topic in need of discussion. But of course, like everyone, I bring the bias of my own experience to the table.

eli poss wrote:Assuming your climbing single pitch, if you're worried bout yanking up your belayer and there are trees at the base, tie the other end of the rope to a tree (bowline w/ stopper) and clove into your belayer's haul loop at the correct length (situationally dependent). This anchors them to the ground w/o any additional gear (other than a spare locker) and, given the dynamic element of the rope, shouldn't hurt their back even in the event of a very hard fall.

Yeah, no, please don't do that. Anchor off your belay loop, not your haul loop. When force is applied to the belay loop and haul loop at the same time, the circle that is your harness waist belt wants to turn into a straight line. And the thing caught in between is your organs. At best, this is extremely uncomfortable - at worst, damaging. There is just no reason to put the human body into the anchor system in this way. Just anchor through the belay loop.

"When they're belaying me: ... Otherwise, they stand DIRECTLY under the first bolt, wear close toed shoes, and use a gri. "

I'm not sure a Grigri is the best choice in this case -- if they get pulled up into the first bolt, the pressure of the bolt on the top of the Grigri may actually force the cam closed, allowing the rope to run through. I understand why you want an assisted-locking device -- hand strength may be marginal for such catches without one, as well as something that will grab if the person is being thrown around -- but not sure a Grigri is the right choice. Maybe look for an assisted-locking device that does not have a similar pressure-direction release?

Here we go...

I am 200lbs and always looking for new climbing partners in northern CA. I am a safe belayer and prefer to not hit the ground when I fall. Hit me up!

The 5% body fat thing, whilst possible seems unlikely. You might want to throw up some pics if you really want to be believed on that one (depends how much you care, really). However, I'm 6'-5" and 210lbs and fairly lean, but I'd bet I still have around 15%. I have a friend who is 6'-4" and about 220lbs, and he looks leaner than me. So I think it's possible.

If it's true, you must have far more muscle than you need for climbing. Or an adamantium skeleton.

Large weight mis-matches are scary for both partners when the heavy one is leading. The other way round is much easier; when your lighter climber falls, you jump. I had lighter partners test it in the gym with me, with positive results.

I'm 245 and have no problem catching a light guy softly. I go with the upward force. I practiced at the gym with friends to get the soft catch down. The rope makes a difference. I didn't sleep last night so I'll have to say use whatever rope stretches more. High low impact elongation something... If there's no ledge action.

My buddy's 180 and he says catching me is like reeling in a big fish! Haha..

NickMartel wrote:Anchoring the belayer via their haul loop is not a good idea as it will cause there harness to squeeze their internal organs HARD. Much better to anchor to the belay loop (below the belay device).

interesting, i guess this is something where YMMV really comes into play because I have done this and caught some hard falls without any discomfort. the reason i suggested haul loop is because generally the belayer will be standing between the tree and the wall so having the rope anchored to their belay loop is awkward.

Mathias wrote:The 5% body fat thing, whilst possible seems unlikely. You might want to throw up some pics if you really want to be believed on that one (depends how much you care, really). However, I'm 6'-5" and 210lbs and fairly lean, but I'd bet I still have around 15%. I have a friend who is 6'-4" and about 220lbs, and he looks leaner than me.

I think 95% of statistics are made up. When I was training for the Navy, I was working out about four hours per day, 6-7x a week for almost a year. I would run, bike, swim and lift nearly everyday. I also did an Ironman and seven other triathlons in one summer. I was at about 10-12% even with that regiment.