Rappel accident in the Gunks on 7/25
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I'd think downside of using your rack as a weight is that if for some reason you need to stop and build an anchor during the actual rappel you will need to hope it can be pulled back up. |
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Without reading the entire four pages of this post... |
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First off glad the injuries are not more severe and hope for a fast recovery. I knew a climber that died from repelling off the end. |
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First, a word of thanks to KathyS and her friends for working on the rescue. |
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Guardian Angle...maybe not so much. |
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I don't know but from what I have read here the issue was possibly one side of the rope wasn't threaded through the device, or more likely, the rap biner, in which case knots or ends on the ground don't change a thing. |
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Tom Stryker wrote:I don't know but from what I have read here the issue was possibly one side of the rope wasn't threaded through the device, or more likely, the rap biner, in which case knots or ends on the ground don't change a thing.Again, from Kathy S's post, who was actually there: "I could see her belay device and backup prussic attached to her harness with only one strand of the rope remaining threaded through each." |
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Greg Petliski wrote: You would absolutely love Deep Survival by Lawrence Gonzales if you havent already read it. Talks about stuff like this in depth. Amazing stuff, should be required reading for anyone who spends time out of doors.+1 for Deep Survival. |
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Exactly. |
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Some people think that there are situations where tying a knot in the end of the rope my be inconvenient. |
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Chris Owen wrote:Some people think that there are situations where tying a knot in the end of the rope my be inconvenient. There is a distinct difference between convenient and deadly - this is why I tie a knot without question.When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly. |
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Eric Engberg wrote: When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly.Unless it is windy, in which case the ends of the rope will be clipped to the first person down, how could a knot get stuck out of reach? The only way I can think is if you didn't remove a knot before pulling. If this is the concern, tie the ends together (with modern belay plates I don't find this twists the ropes), or again, clip the ends to you with clove hitches and release these just as you reach the next chain. Sorry if I missed something - didn't read the whole thread. |
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When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly.
Knots equal stuck ropes. Stuck ropes are deadly. Ropes without knots get firmly stuck upon occasion. (Happened to me the other day on Cannon.) Therefore ropes without knots are deadly. Conclusion: To be safe dispense with the rope and either walk off or down climb the entire route you just struggled up. Yes it is silly. But the point is it is important to keep in mind the context of this thread. Many reading this thread are very thoughtful and experienced veteran climbers. Some contributors to it have 40+ years experience. Many others I would guess might be just starting out. Alex Ch earlier in the thread nicely put the focus on this point with the following: Wear seat belts. Tie knots on your ropes. Learn the rules then "break them" when you know when and why to break them. I would edit Alex's post slightly. Wear seat belts. Tie knots on your ropes. Learn the rules then "break them" when you know when and why and how to break them. I would venture that if Eric doesn't know all the rules and how to best break them he must be pretty darn close. However there are a lot of people, me included, that are still stumbling our way forward and working our way through Climbing Rules 101. And if you are just starting on "Climbing Rules 101" I would advise a day or two spent with a guide introducing you to climbing or taking an introduction to climbing course would be an extremely worthwhile investment. BTW the way the Boston AMC offers an excellent such course each Spring. It is given by several really experienced and truly qualified instructors, Eric not least among them. BTW any update on the outcome for the injured party? Hoping she is experiencing a rapid and complete recovery. Bill Neacy |
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Thanks for the compliments Bill - whether deserved or not. Your and Alex's summaries are spot on. I'll add a few variations: |
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David Coley wrote: Unless it is windy, in which case the ends of the rope will be clipped to the first person down, how could a knot get stuck out of reach?Well, not out of reach, but stuck below the stance, requiring a further rappel down to almost the very end of the ropes, freeing the knots (both jammed in a crack), and prusiking back up. That burned enough time that some other raps had to be done in the dark. Whether that was an "inconvenience" or a "danger" can only really be decided from the outcome: no one got hurt as a result. |
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Eric Engberg wrote:When the knot jams someplace not easily accessible the situation can progress from inconvenient to deadly pretty quickly.Just how quickly? Would you be accelerating at a rate of 9.8 m/s^2 to your death? |
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Hope the climber is okay. I wish her a speedy physical recovery, and hope that she gets the support of compassionate and encouraging friends and outdoors enthusiasts who can help her get psyched about getting back outdoors. |
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MP is now quoted as a source by the mags ... |
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Well said, Alex. |