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Steele routes on private property

Original Post
Nick Wilder · · Boulder, CO · Joined Jan 2005 · Points: 4,098

As many of you know well, quite a few routes in the Steele area are on private property. The SCC owns some land with some routes, but not nearly everything that has been popular for climbers.

After discussing the issue with the private landowners, I am deleting all routes on their private property. This is no doubt a shame, but we have a clear policy on MP: if it's on public land with no access issues, we share routes, AND if it's not on public land, it's up to the landowner if they want it advertised. In this case, they do not. For the record, it is most certainly their right to restrict people on their own land; please don't be mad at them.

Preserving routes on MP "for historical reasons" sounds good, but in this case it just tempts people to go trespass, so they can't stay up for that reason either.

zekem · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 70

Sad that it has to be that way. But it is for the best. Good to see something done to at least try to create a resolution on the issue.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
zekem wrote:Good to see something done to at least try to create a resolution on the issue.
Thanks, Nick, for stepping up.
Mark Thesing · · Central Indiana · Joined Apr 2010 · Points: 60

I hope you have a flag in the database that indicates a climb should or shouldn't be displayed so if in the future the areas open up again, the flag can be reset and the climbs will be display without having to be reentered.

Ryan7crew · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 485

Don't be deleting posts Paul, really?

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30

Not deleted...posted in a more appropriate location.

mountainproject.com/v/steel…

Ryan7crew · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Feb 2012 · Points: 485

I will move my comments then.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
This post was originally a comment in Steele

For information concerning Steele's history, SCC access achievement, and SCCLT regulations, click this link: SCC STEELE CRAG
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
This post was originally a comment in Steele

"....a modern day rebel, a free-spirited individualist, striding through the world wide-eyed and purposeful...." ..Tom Sawyer. Better check that attitude if you're ever in Steele, Alabama. It seems to have gotten a local 501c3 in a bit of a "tight".

For the record, I believe Paul's main point here is that the SCC, and it's agent, continue to insinuate that the totality of Steele is open to the public because part of it is owned by the SCC, because it is in the DCA, or for any number of other reasons. Or, at least, it comes off that way.

In truth, there are those of us for which Steele is much more of a "home crag". Namely, those of us that live on the side of the hill. Those of us who have to cope with the SCC as neighbors and the climbing community who visits. If you visit Steele much, I imagine we've already met. If not, say 'hello' sometime. I'm the Appalachian driving the Kubota side by side.

word wrote:I have been told that proactive resolutions were given and then implemented including signage and the removal of routes on MP. I have been told more have been offered but for what ever reason have fallen on deaf ears as if they never existed
"word", whoever you are, if you have any questions about things that "have fallen on deaf ears" or can offer further resolution to the issue, please feel free to contact me through the site. If, in fact, you are alluding to anything involving me.

Otherwise, y'all are going to need to abide by the facts... Facts would indicate that the left end is wholly off limits and closed to climbing, hiking, hunting, geocaching, 4wheeling, bird watching, etc. Facts would indicate that the right side belongs to a private landowner, it was a bad idea to advertise the climbing, and that has been remedied on MP. For that, I am grateful. To the degree that the right side is private, it would be wise to take heed. Lest something even more restrictive occur.

As far as the DCA, the same Board Member posting above supplied and promoted that information without indicating boundaries. The book is in print, the damage is done. I don't believe that info will be included in future editions. And, that is all anyone can ask for.

The SCC's plot is a worthy destination and contains several distinct areas. Perhaps, someday, more climbing will open up. For now, all would be well advised to hear this message:

Climb between the signs.
zekem · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 70

Why do people feel they have the right to advertise an area that has been explicitly named as "off limits"?

Who the hell do you think you are? How would you feel if people showed up at your house day and night bringing dogs and iPods and causing a ruckus? Sure at first it may be ok meeting some people who you share a common love with (climbing) but when your property is continuously exploited as a free destination for recreation and leisure it would probably get on your nerves! How about being a responsible adult and respecting the wishes of the surrounding landowners. Gain their respect and maybe then they would let you spend an afternoon in their property. Stop being arrogant entitled pricks.

END RANT

Joey Wolfe · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,020
word wrote: This is our home crag. We got this dude. We don't need the "help" of an outsider. Leave us be.
Outsider "help" is what bought the crag in the first place, do you think all the money was raised in AL? Leave us be? Be careful what you wish for.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0
zekem wrote:Why do people feel they have the right to advertise an area that has been explicitly named as "off limits"? Who the hell do you think you are? How would you feel if people showed up at your house day and night bringing dogs and iPods and causing a ruckus? Sure at first it may be ok meeting some people who you share a common love with (climbing) but when your property is continuously exploited as a free destination for recreation and leisure it would probably get on your nerves! How about being a responsible adult and respecting the wishes of the surrounding landowners. Gain their respect and maybe then they would let you spend an afternoon in their property. Stop being arrogant entitled pricks. END RANT
Never lived in a city before have you? Within reason I think the land owners are probably greatly overreacting.

I have been to steele twice during a week long stay at HP40 and you know what we never saw another soul. I find it hard to imagine you have groups of people causing so much noise up there that you would be bothering the homes so far down below it.

There are places I have looked at buying personally and opening up for others to have easier access to cliffs / camping spots etc. I personally don't have a problem with it until it becomes a problem of people trashing the area. Unless steele has greatly changed in the last year from when I was there I don't remember seeing any trash up there (probably on private land part of the time because I had no clue where borders were and we did alot of hiking back and forth see what was there).

Are climbers really up there at night drinking, throwing trash all over the place, and playing boomboxes???

I wasn't a climber growing up but i spent 90% of my childhood playing in woods all over the place. It is private property so you can do whatever you want but people aren't going to think much of you if you are overracting and keeping all your toys in a private box.

I would totally understand people getting pissed if others were bolting stuff they didn't want bolted, trashing the place, or throwing parties up there at night when people are trying to sleep etc... but based on what I have seen there I would find it hard to believe.
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

ViperScale....

I am pleased you had a good experience and, indeed, it's not like this is Sandrock or the TWall, with toilet paper and garbage all over the woods... But, everything you have described has occurred, and in greater frequency over the last 18 months. Rest assured, in the future, if there is loud partying (boomboxes), etc., at night, there'll be a VERY direct and succinct reaction.

Now, as an example, the SCC AREA MANAGER had ten cars parked on SCC land after the last trailday. He invited all his "buddies" up there to camp where the SCC has posted - no camping. I let it slide, at the time thinking I would be able to coalesce with the SCC, and it set a bad precedent. since then, sadly, I have decided that I cannot "do business" with the current representation.

But, I take something more from your post.....

ViperScale wrote:It is private property so you can do whatever you want but people aren't going to think much of you if you are overracting and keeping all your toys in a private box.
As you may be able to tell, I am much more concerned with the opinion (and well-being) of my wife, family, and "friendlies" rather than a bunch of entitled idiots who cannot abide my simple requests. "Private Box".... Gee whiz.

I have, during the last few months, been called: an "asshole", a "squabbler", an "extremist", and several other choice words. I can confirm that it's all true and I wear those badges plainly.

Do you really wanna climb so bad, left of SCC land, that you are going to risk irritating me or my wife? or worse? That's the real question you contrarians need to consider. Until there is some sort of reasonable, mature address by the SCC, that's the state of things.

ViperScale wrote:I would totally understand people getting pissed if others were bolting stuff they didn't want bolted, trashing the place, or throwing parties up there at night when people are trying to sleep etc... but based on what I have seen there I would find it hard to believe.
Man, believe it. Everything you mention has occurred. That's THE TRUTH. It is being fixed. But, you are gonna have to wait for it.

Next time you visit, let me know, and I'll give you the tour, answer any questions, share a beer, etc.
Anonymous · · Unknown Hometown · Joined unknown · Points: 0

Well that is sad that there is that many people who have no respect for where they are.

I have run into someone at moore's wall trying to top rope the rap rings on the second pitch of sentinel butress on a saturday.
A) He should have had quick draws
B) He shouldn't try to top rope at the only true rappel route on the wall (and a busy sat at that)

He ended up sitting there on the ledge for over an hour while back to back groups were rapping down (he at least let us use his rope to rap). We brought up to him that you should not be top roping off the rap rings and he was like well i can just go replace them myself etc... which i highly doubt he would so we dropped it.

Like i said i don't live there and if it really is that big of an issue I don't blame you, sad but I know some people have no respect for others.

BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620

Thanks, man. I, too, am sorry for the state of things. My intention, at the time, was to move up there and really work to cultivate "the mission"... I think the evidence, the hours and dollars donated, would indicate that our intention was to help improve the place at the time. Understand that the very people I am railing against now, the Alabamaians anyway, are longtime climbers, longtime acquaintances, and it is not lost on me that everyone involved takes climbing (and Steele) very seriously. Alienation is alive and well in Alabama right now.

word · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

Yea in a way you are right Joey Wolfe. So come over and "help" lend some positive vibrations to this whole negativity so that we can just get back to what we all love and love to do and that's southern sandstone and climbing on it.

I assume there will be a fall trail day maybe that will be a good time for all of us to come together and just try to get along.

Or maybe we just like this whole in fight.

Hell I don't know any more.

Oh and BHMBEN..do you know this Tom Sawyer??

True there is no camping allowed on SE Climbers Coalition Steele property so don't encourage or condone your friends to camp and/or party there either.

Alienation is the treasure you sought so badly you have found.

Anyone remember the days we would park at Ms Sharpton's house up top and climb all day just us and the turkey buzzards? Some times she would have baked cookies and offer them to us upon our return. Good times...

Later y'all.

J Q · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Mar 2012 · Points: 50
youtube.com/watch?v=E8ftyVQ…

And you know, we all want to change the world.
BirminghamBen · · Birmingham, AL · Joined Jan 2007 · Points: 1,620
word wrote:Oh and BHMBEN..do you know this Tom Sawyer??
I do believe that I figured it out on my way home. Indeed, you have an attitude advantage, along with a better command of the English language.

But, here's what I don't get... Why do you sound so, um, "borderline" on here, whilst being such a staunch Alabamian? ...Which is the way to go, in this case.

Many voices are involved. ATL, Chattanooga, Alabama, etc. Even some dude down in Mobile. Tensions are high... This thing is, for better or worse, currently, involving "foreigners". You take exception, yet you have opened Pandora's box, in a way. Or.... So, it seems.

Me. I wanna close it.
word · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

BHMBEN...

"Though his mind is not for rent...Don't put him down as arrogant..His reserve, a quiet defense..Riding out the day's events" This is Geddy Lee's Tom Sawyer you think you know.

Borderline you say? Open the proverbial Pandora's box? I beg's to differ.

As y'all choke on your own regurgitation, I have stood quite clear but here we go again..

- The issues have become explicit
- Offered resolutions ignored deliberately
- "Foreigners" as you call them offering nothing constructive to our problems (no offense intended Joey Wolfe!!)

Tensions are high in your mind only because you want them to be. Unbeknownst to me why. I was recently up at Steele. Quiet and peaceful as I always remembered it to be. You live there and want to have your peace, we visit there to find some respite. And to climb!! Hey, wow, something that resembles common ground.

Here is a final appeal..

Though it may not be apparent, there has always been respect that you are serious about the sanctity of what's yours. We know you are in pain over this but set that aside for a minute. Do you really want the same closure as we? Stop the slandering and negative manure spewing. Call off the dogs. Be more open minded towards all views. Stop forcing me to post here, HA!!

All offers are still on the table. I am for us. Always have been, brother. But the wits are at their end.

"Exit the warrior..Today's Tom Sawyer..He gets high on you..And the energy you trade..He gets right on to the friction of the day"

word · · Unknown Hometown · Joined Jul 2015 · Points: 0

Ah another Rush fan. You are correct, sir. And was Geddy Lee's to add voice. So as to be his song as well.

Paul Barnes · · Gainesville, Georgia · Joined Nov 2007 · Points: 30
word wrote:BHMBEN..! All offers are still on the table.
Yeah Ben....they offered to let you give your property away to the SCC so you would have no recourse as to the way people conduct themselves behind your house. How in the world could you not jump on such a fine offer?

And since we're all assuming Moving Pictures identities....I'll be the Red Barchetta.

"My uncle has a country place that no one knows about...."
Guideline #1: Don't be a jerk.

Southern States
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